From the Colloquium at Worms, which was begun in 1540 but not completed.
1306 Concerns raised at the meeting in Worms in 1540 as to how the protesting estates should act in the upcoming colloquium and whether the ecclesiastical envoy should be accepted as a judge in contentious matters.
Ebnerschen Manuscript, x. 36. also in the Oorx. Rot, vol. ill, 1151.
(1) It is to be expected that the opposite party will try many dangerous tricks, not only with the pope's envoys, but with many careful things, such as the position of the articles and various calumnies and sophistries; therefore it is necessary that we pray against these Ahitophel.
(2) But this care is not needed, lest they should give way in the noblest articles, as when we shall say that all private masses are idolatry; item, when we shall dispute sola fide. Therefore we do not hope that anyone from this part will appear to accept their means, because he intends to fall away from the Gospel altogether. Whoever does not want to stay, we must let him go. Samuel was also hurt by Saul's apostasy, and there are many examples of it; Daniel also speaks especially of this time: "Many will join them falsely and unfaithfully. Therefore, we may command this danger to God, and the safest thing against all speed is for each one to remember to confess his faith, and to make as much report of it as God has given him grace to do.
3 Therefore, we think it best to stay on this road when it is time to talk.
We must declare and prove our articles thoroughly and according to necessity, and reply to the opposing side in a makeshift manner. For it would be far too long to fight out all the calumnies. Whoever wants to accept the truth or stay with it will be seen. This is our foremost concern; and if one sticks to it, one will realize that this will prevent much quarreling on the part of the opposing party and ours.
4 And it is not inadvisable that we should give our answers orally and in writing; otherwise all our speech will be turned back on us, as happened at Augsburg.
5 This is also a good thing, so that we do not have to make articles with them, but let it stay with the positions we have been given.
Item 6: Since our lords are not present, it is necessary to record the actions in writings, so that no one seeks an evasion through a calumnia.
7. item, the opposite is afraid of writing and shuns the light; they are also not skilled at writing.
8) It is easy for us to remain in harmony, otherwise each one will shout what he wants. 9. the beginning will be annoying for the papists, if we fast the protest against the envoy in writing, because it will be sharpened and soon spread.
From papal envoys.
(10) If we have recused the council, so that the pope should not be the judge, we must rather protest clearly in this act that we do not recognize the papal envoy, or the pope, as a superior judge.
or merchants, but for the principal agent and challenge him as a heretic, idolatrous and antichrist. This protestation must be made without any doubt. Now will follow from the beginning.
From the beginning of the action of protestation.
At Augsburg, they initially protested that their opinion was not to change anything in their doctrine, but to bring us to their side. Now strange protests will also happen. Where they will now say that they do not intend to change anything, but to turn us away alone, let us bear in mind that the deal will then be immediately cut off altogether. Such a thing is to be done, if something is held out to unite us above and beyond the Frankfurt agreement. And it is also to be indicated in all seriousness, as we enter into this discussion, that we do not understand the settlement to be an apostasy or defection, but have therefore entered into it, that we hope, if we were to deal with people of good conscience, that it would be found that the doctrine in our churches is right; thereby to report to His Imperial Majesty better than it would have been. Majesty better than has been done so far, and then ways may be sought for unity.
(12) In response to this speech of ours, we will hear from them what their minds are. They will also perhaps pretend that we should not argue, but only briefly indicate what we want to yield. Nor is this to be done blindly, as if one threw his garments into hell and took them out again, without distinction, but we must clearly indicate that we cannot deviate from anything in doctrine and necessary matters, and we must indicate the reason why this discussion was undertaken, so as to seek the truth first and foremost; so that peace cannot be made by suppressing the truth.
When the doctrine and necessary parts have been compared, it is then necessary to speak of the bishops' authority, ordination, and some middle ceremonies; it is futile to speak of these, because the doctrine is disputed, and we find enemies in the reason. To this end, the imperial Majesty's decree that the confession and apologiam should be made. In sum, the entrance will bring many strange speeches, so that the envoy will either forbid the discussion, or will nevertheless sit, despite our protest.
14 If he refuses the conversation, we let it happen and it is useful for us; if he does not, we let it happen and it is useful for us.
The question is, regardless of our protest, whether we should stand up or whether we are sufficiently protected by reported protest.
(15) Now it is to be considered whether it is better that the action should be in principal articles, such as fide, private mass, ecclesiastical power, satisfactio, purgatio, holy service, vota, etc., or in this sitting down of the envoys, since we are sufficiently protected by the protestation, and perhaps it is good that the envoy himself should hear how many great, excellent articles we have against the papacy. Therefore, let it be ordered what is to be done in this case, if the legate sits down despite our protestation, whether we should then refuse the action.
16 With regard to this question, it is also necessary to know how far the speeches extend that were previously made at Frankfurt and Hagenau.
1307. copy of the protestation filed before the colloquium at Worms.
The following documents from No. 1307 to 1312 are all found in Röders Schrift cle Colloquio ^Vormut., p. 39 ff. This writing is found in the Oorx. Uet., Vol. Ill, 1143 and 1147.
Translated from Latin by M. A. Tittel.
We are well acquainted with the opinions of the people of the world concerning these spiritual disputes, and we are not so stupid that we alone should not consider and foresee our danger. Nor are we so foolish and whimsical that we alone, without most necessary causes, would want to be of a different opinion than so many nations. But we have high, just and godly reasons for our actions, for we should not dim the light of the Gospel that has risen again in our churches through God's grace. Nor would it be Christian to strengthen great abuses and errors. It would also be against Christian prudence to take the unjust side (and to help such cry out). For this reason, ever since the popes, after the beginning of the renewed doctrine, have made and let go out cruel conclusions written in blood against us, have also incited kings and princes against us from time to time, have always desired a just and free judgment of the church and have offered us responsibility. But this just plea has been rejected and only harsh orders, which threaten us with great danger, have been thundered against us. But whether such cruelty and severity of the
Even though the orders were softened by the glow of the most invincible Emperor Carol, the ruler of the empire and our most gracious lord, a sharpness that is of little use for the tranquility of the Germans has been renewed by the injustice of the Court of Appeal. In the meantime, in order to think of true means against the disunity, conclusions have been made in the empire, in which hope has been given for a concilium; although no free concilium has been announced since then, nor have some discussions been held to investigate the truth. For since a committee of some princes and teachers was made at Augsburg, who wished to act with us on the unification of the doctrines of faith, they said publicly in advance that they would not change anything in the doctrine and sacred customs of their church. Now it has been suggested that they would bring us back to their opinions and instill in us the previous errors. That is why the same Augsburg discussion could neither heal the church nor bring about peace. Thus, we are still in constant danger, since we can neither come to a correct knowledge (or judgment), nor to a certain peace. The Supreme Court has thundered at us on several occasions. Elsewhere, cruelty is practiced on innocent people who are of our faith. Finally, however, in order to bring peace and harmony to the churches, a discussion of church doctrine and unity has been promised at Frankfurt; and a certain way has been proposed that moderate, learned, pious, and not quarrelsome men from both sides should act together on the doctrines. We hoped for peace and quiet again. But this way was abandoned at the meeting in Hagenau, even though we contradicted it. For although it was decided that the discussion should precede it, another, more dangerous way was sought, so that it is to be feared that some are only trying to deceive us with the pretense of a concilii, since they cannot deceive us with the preliminary judgments of such a meeting.
In addition to such difficulties, there are also the complaints about the chairmanship. Since we are already so pressed in advance, we would have enough reasons to reject this discussion. However, because it is expressly said that this deal should not be binding, and the most gracious Emperor only desires on both sides that the truth be revealed, we want to submit to the
We do not refuse to have this conversation, but request that we discuss the doctrine and recovery of the churches in a friendly manner. We protest (testify) in advance, however, that for the sake of this meeting we will not depart from our appeal to a general, free and godly concilium, as has been done in other meetings, nor from the conclusions of the Empire, which have been made on account of a common and national concilii, nor abandon the Frankfurt promise, which seems to be much more useful for the explanation of the truth and for concord, nor forget what we asked for in the meeting at Hagenau. We also testify that we honor the Catholic Christian Church, in which the Son of God, the Fathers, Prophets, Apostles and Saints reign at all times, from the bottom of our hearts and with all seriousness. With this group, which is the true Church, constituted in the true Word of God, we do not wish to be in disagreement, and take God as our witness that we desire nothing more than that the pure and simple doctrine of the Christian Catholic Church, which is in need of the pious, may appear and be preserved, so that God, the Father of our Redeemer JEsu Christ, may be rightly honored and many salvations and blessedness promoted. And there is no other reason why we do not agree with the Roman bishop than because he defends errors and false worship, which conflict with the Gospel, and shows himself to be an enemy of our churches. Therefore we testify here that we do not grant him the power that he would like to arrogate to himself in this discussion or otherwise against the Gospel.
But since our Lord and Savior Christ, the Son of God, promised that, wherever the pious come together in his name, he will be present, we ask him that he himself may sit at the head of this crowd and govern this disputation in such a way that the truth may be explained and God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, may be properly honored. For we certainly have to deal with great and many things. It is necessary now to identify the whole opinion (or doctrine) of Paul, which has long been obscured; it is necessary to distinguish the right worship and the doctrines of men; it is necessary to explain the right way of a sacrifice; it is necessary to speak of the whole right of the church power. At which Concilio (or Synod) have so many serious disputes occurred? And yet, all this must be rightly settled in the Church.
After that, harmony is needed, as for other reasons, so especially for this one, because here and there, due to the lack of godly priests, there is a lack of harmony.
The people of the country lack pastors, from which the downfall of religion and a miserable barbarism must ensue, where one does not think of means to counteract it. Not only princes, but also others should take this great danger of the common being to heart.
We will therefore, as the Emperor desires, answer honestly and without falsehood in all possible clarity and clearness from all articles of our confession, and use the guideline which God has prescribed for us, namely certain and clear testimonies of prophetic and apostolic writings, as it is commanded: "Whoever shall teach another gospel, let him be accursed! We also want to act righteously and honestly, so that it may be seen how we gladly seek truth and peace, but not strife. We do not want to war over words, but keep over important things that we have from God. For of this doctrine which we profess, we are assured that it is truly the unanimous doctrine of the Christian Catholic Church, as certainly stated in the apostolic writings, and hold that the custom of the Catholic Church and the most approved fathers are on our side, if they are rightly understood. But if anyone demands otherwise, let him bring divine Scripture against us! If this is done without sophistry, then we want to accede in the greatest modesty. And again we ask that the opponents use the same guideline, namely the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures, but not bring forward bald and dishonest distortions and interpretations instead of the Scriptures; Also to leave out deceitful conclusions, quarrels and contentions, to agree with certain testimonies of the apostolic writings, and to remember that without truth there can be no lasting harmony or peace; likewise that this is the noblest service of God, to free the church from idolatry and false opinions, as Paul says: "Flee idolatry." What greater sacrifice can we make to God than when the revealed true doctrine comes to light, and we thereby glorify the glory of Christ and promote the harmony of the Churches? These are the gifts that God most requires of us, as Christ says: "In this my heavenly Father is honored, if you bear fruit abundantly and become my disciples." Therefore, we desire and pray from the bottom of our hearts that we may render obedience to this heavenly command, so that all hearts and minds may be inclined and awakened by God to love and understand the truth.
1308 Imperial order concerning the Lord of Granvella. October 10, 1540.
See the previous number.
Translated into German by M. Aug. Tittel.
Carl V. by the Grace of God, Roman Emperor, all time Major of the Empire, in Germany, Spain, both Sicily, Jerusalem, Hungary, Dalmatia, Croatia etc. King, Archduke in Austria, Duke of Burgundy, Brabant etc., Count of Habsburg, Flanders, Tyrol etc., Do hereby certify and affirm, by virtue thereof, before all and sundry: that, since we have always sought peace and unity in the Holy Roman Empire as much as possible, and have been all the more concerned that the dispute over our religion (which has now been going on and circulating in the Empire for some years, not without great harm) be settled and resolved by amicable ways and means, and that consequently all the disputes and disagreements that have arisen among the estates of the Empire be settled without any unrest or violence, and that peace may finally be established in the realm, we will therefore not lack for anything in our diligence and efforts, as our actions of the past can amply prove, but now, with God's help, we also want to do and apply everything so that it does not seem as if it were due to us that the dispute has not been settled and the matter has finally come to a conclusion. Therefore, even though our important imperial business kept us away the other day, we nevertheless left everything behind, left our Spanish kingdoms and our children, and went to these countries with our great troubles, and after consulting with our most noble brother, the Roman king, etc., an assembly of the princes and some of the princes of the empire, in which our most noble brother, Roman King etc., personally presided in our name (or was the head), and had it held: for no other reason than that we wanted to compare the religion and strengthen the peace in the empire.
Since, however, the matter could not be brought to a desired conclusion in such a meeting, but was referred to another meeting, and a day for amicable trade and discussion was appointed and advertised by us, in which some learned, prudent and peace-loving men, to be chosen in equal numbers by the Electors and Princes named in the Hagenau Agreement, as well as by the Protestants, should appear and, in the presence of some men specially appointed for the purpose, should be invited to the meeting.
The Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor and the Council of the Holy Roman Emperor; that finally the matter be brought to a proper decision either by means of a lawful concilii, or otherwise, as will be agreed upon, and that besides this, something further be done and deliberated about other imperial affairs:
Therefore, in order to demonstrate our care and heartfelt affection for the common peace of the realm, we have deemed it good to send a noble and highly entrusted person to attend the reported meeting and discussion on our behalf. Because we place complete trust in the respectable and noble, our dear faithful, Nicolaum Perenottum, Lord of Granvella, Doctor and Knight of both rights, our highest State Councillor and petitioner, because of his loyalty, honesty, prudence, diligence and zeal for religion and public peace, we have chosen and appointed only the said Lord of Granvella as our Commissioner and Envoy. By virtue of this we appoint and decree him as such, and hereby give the same commissioner and envoy full power and authority to be present in our name at the said act and conversation, to attend the same, and to act with other princes, princes, and the absent envoys and deputies and others, who will be present at such action and discussion, both about the said and other points of the Hagenau agreement, and about the points reserved for our statement (or explanation), and everything that belongs to it, which occurs in the process, and also in particular act, take care, conclude, command, give the pronouncement or explanation, and by our authority and power, according to what is necessary, take part and do, say, practice and administer everything else that is necessary in the aforementioned matters and in doing so, or in any other way that may be necessary, not unlike what we ourselves, if we were present in person, would act, do and perform, even if there were other things for which a further special authority and command would be required, over and above what is expressed here.
We therefore appoint our commissary and envoy in our stead and on our behalf, and promise that we will consider all that this commissary and envoy will do, act, conclude, perform, declare, or present, in whole or in part, in the aforementioned matters, to be acceptable, valid, right and good, firm and certain in all respects, and that we will never do, perform, speak, or say anything contrary to this, either in general or individually, under any pretense or pretense. All faithfully, but dangerously. Testimony to which is our letter signed by our own hand and affixed with our imperial seal. Given in our city of Brussels, the 10th day of the month Octobris, in the year 1540, of our Empire in the 20th and of our Realms in the 25th year.
Carl.
By special order of Her Imperial and Catholic Majesty
Obernburger.
1369 Imperial Majesty's letter apologizing for the long absence of the Lord of Granvella. 12 Oct. 1540.
See No. 1307.
Carl von GOttes Gnaden, Roman Emperor, at all times Mehrer des Reichs etc.
Reverend, venerable, and highborn, dear friends, nephews, grandees, princes, and sovereigns; also well-born, noble, honorable, scholars, dear devotees and faithful. As we have decided to appoint the noble, our secret councilor and the kingdom's dear faithful, Niclasen Perenot, Lord of Granyellen, as our commissioner and ambassador for the assembly day that is to be held in Worms, and as he is our commissioner and orator, he is noticeably burdened with other diverse business that has occurred to us since then, so that his arrival on the above-mentioned assembly day might be somewhat delayed, we therefore request E. L. and you, the others, to appoint him as our commissioner and ambassador for the assembly day that is to be held in Worms. L. and you, the others, with kind, gracious diligence, whether our Commissary will not arrive on the appointed day, so that E. L. and you, the others, will not be burdened with expenses incurred and the consumption of time, that you will nevertheless in the meantime give the action of the meeting a start, and proceed, and not delay his arrival. This comes to us from
E. L. and you to special good favor and describe our will and opinion. Given in our city of Brussels in Brabant, on the 12th day of October, Anno 1540, in the 20th year of our Empire and the 25th year of our Kingdom.
Carolus.
Ad mandatum Caes. et Cath. Maj. proprium. Obernburger.
To the high and venerable, highborn, our dear friends, nephews, grandparents, electors and princes, also well-born, noble, honorable, scholars, our dear, devout and faithful to the empire N., all rulers, councillors and ambassadors, who will be assembled on the 28th day of October at Worms.
1310 Letter from the Lord of Granvella to the Catholic Estates, in which he apologizes for his late arrival. Nov. 2, 1540.
See No. 1307.
Translated into German by M. Aug. Tittel.
Most reverend, worthy fathers in Christ, most illustrious princes and rulers of the realm, and highborn, noble, strict, learned and highly wise lords!
The pile of so much business that has grown up for me has been most repugnant to me, which has prevented my earlier arrival at your noble estates. I regret from the bottom of my heart that I was not able to arrive on a certain day, as your noble estates (or dignities) requested and wished, and as I was obliged to do according to my reverence for Christianity. Since it was not possible to travel quickly and according to my heart's desire, I have nevertheless sent my apologies in writing to your Serene Highnesses, and meanwhile wanted to send the handsome Lord John of Navia, Provost of Merphile (or Merville), ahead as ambassador, who may report that I will certainly be present in the near future. He is a councillor of the sacred imperial majesty, whose effort and honesty we have already experienced in such actions, but you, who were present at that time, will also have found such. Therefore, I have considered him to be the most worthy to whom I would like to hand over this letter as well as what I have to tell your Serene Highnesses orally, so that you may hear everything correctly about the progress of my journey. Which I hope he will do faithfully.
that then not the least obstacles or causes are further in the way of the highly important things.
By the same I now command myself to your Serene Highnesses, and ask and beg cordially that you, meanwhile, as I make my journey to your Serene Highnesses, may think entirely of everything that may be beneficial to the common being. I hope with the next, if God wills it! to present my most obedient debt to your devotion and Serene Highnesses; to which I in the meantime recommend myself entirely to your most reverend and worthy fatherhoods and illustrious glories. Given Besancon, November 2, 1540.
To Their Most Worthy Fathers and Serene Highnesses, Strict and Prudent Most Devoted
Nicolaus Perenottus.
To the most reverend, reverend, reverend and reverend, princes and lords, Mr. Albrecht, cardinal priest, archbishop in Mainz and Magdeburg, primate; Mr. Hermann, archbishop in Cologne; Mr. Johann Ludewig, elected archbishop in Trier etc.; Ludwig, Count Palatine of the Rhine; Joachim, Margrave of Brandenburg, of the Holy Roman Empire through Germany, Italy, and France Archchancellors, Archtruchsesses, and Archemperors, and Princes; Mr. Ernest, Archbishop in Salzburg etc., and Mr. Wilhelm, bishop in Strasbourg; Wilhelm and Ludwig, brothers, dukes in Upper and Lower Bavaria etc., Wilhelm, dukes in Jülich and Cleve etc., deputized and appointed princes to the appointed conversation at Worms etc., S. gracious princes and lords. 1)
1311 Emperor Carl V's letter of credence to the German princes concerning the Lord of Granvella, the commissary and orator appointed to the colloquium at Worms. October 13, 1540.
See No. 1307.
Translated into German.
Carl von GOttes Gnaden Roman Emperor, all time Mehrer etc.
Most Reverend in Christ Father, Venerable and Highborn Princes and Reigning Princes, our dear
1) From this inscription it is clear that this letter is addressed only to the Catholic estates.
Friends and dear ones, respectable, noble, respectable, scholars, devout and dear faithful! We presently send to you the most respectable and noble, our dear faithful, Nicolaum Perenottum, Lord of Granvella, Doctor and Knight of both rights, our highest State Councillor and petitioner, our commissary and orator appointed for the above action and religious discussion, so that he may attend this action, according to the authority granted to him by us and on our behalf, with E. We urge your loved ones and others to hear from him, so that he may attend this act, according to the authority granted to him by us and on our behalf, with your loved ones and others, and act in matters about which such a discussion is to be held, and open up our opinion. We therefore kindly exhort and request your loved ones and others to give full credence to this Commissario and Orator of ours in what he will say and do in our name, no differently than if we ourselves were to speak before you. In this, your loved ones and others will show themselves particularly obliging to us. Given in our city of Brussels, the 13th of October, Anno 1540, the twentieth of our empire and the twenty-fifth of our kingdom.
Carl.
By special order of Her Imperial and Catholic Majesty Obernburger.
To the most reverend in Christ Father, to the venerable and high-born electors and princes, to our beloved friends and grandparents; as well as to the respectable, noble, honored, devout, to our and the Holy Roman Empire's dear faithful N., estates, councils, orators and deputies, who will assemble at the next convention in Worms.
1312: List of the envoys and persons who arrived at Worms up to November 4.
See No. 1307.
Assigned ambassadors to the day towards Worms.
Imperial.
Lord of Granvella.
Christoph von Schomperg, Knight.
Gerhardus de Veldrik (Veldbick), Hispanus Theologus.
Have not yet come.
For Pabst's sake.
Cardinalis Campeji Brother.
(Thomas Campejus, episcopus Vsltrsnsis,
Magister palatii.)
Peter Damasius.
Also not yet come.
Ferdinandian.
D. Nausea.
D. Martin Klügel von Frieperg (Kugelen).
Johann Cocleus.
Gallus Miller.
Mainzian councilors.
Mr. Johann von Ernperg, cathedral dean at Mainz and cathedral provost at Speier.
Mr. Julius Pflug, canon of Mainz.
Mr. Jodocus Hutfeldel, Doctor, Provost.
D. Conrad Praun.
Mainz theologians.
Suffraganeus of Mainz, D. Ambrosius Pelargus, cathedral preacher at Trier.
Magdeburg theologians.
Suffraganeus of Halberstadt, preacher at the Preacher's Monastery in Mainz.
Trier and Cologne because of still no one hie.
Salzburgian.
D. Martin Marstaller.
Nicolaus N., cathedral preacher.
Strasbourg Episcopal.
Eisenberg.
Jobst von Seebach.
D. Christoph Wolsinger.
Lic. Johann Armbruster.
Bavarian.
N. Seuboldsdörfer, provost at Munich.
D. Johann Eck.
N. Krez, dean of Munich.
D. Johann Apel, a barefoot monk.
Jülich.
N., Provost of Flatten.
Conradus Herzpachius.
Saxony churfürstlich.
Mr. Hans von Delzke (Dolzk), Knight.
D. Franz Burkart, Chancellor.
D. Kilian Goldstein.
Philip Melanchthon.
D. Caspar Creuziger.
Justus Menius.
Duke Heinrichisch. D. Camitz.
Lic. Nicolaus Scheubel.
Würtemberg.
Balthasar von Gultlingen.
Leonhard Seiler. D. Philipp Lang. Johann Schnepf. D. Balthasar N.
Hessian.
Hermann Schleier.
Alexander of the Dhan.
Adam of Fulda.
Gerardus Noviomagus.
N. Pistorius.
Strasbourg.
Jakob Sturm.
Matthias Sturm.
D. Capito.
Martin Buzer.
John Calvinus.
Johann Sturmius.
Baselish.
Simon Grynäus.
Johann Amerbach.
Augsburgian.
Matthias Langmantel.
Jakob Herbrot.
D. Heel.
Meuslin, Predicant.
Nurembergian.
Erasmus Ebner. D. Wenzel Link. Andreas Osiander.
Magdeburgian.
Nicolaus Amsdörffer, preacher.
Ulmish.
Georg Besserer.
Martin Weickmann.
Martin Frecht, Prädicant, is still alone here.
Hällisch.
Joh. Brenz.
Churfürstlich Brandenburg.
N. Scheiding, former marshal. Alexander Halesius Scotus.
Magister Johann Lüdecken (Ludenis).
1313 Melanchthon's letter to Veit Dietrich. November 4, 1540.
This and the two following letters are found in Röder I. o. x. 48 ff. This letter is also found in the epist. üdelanokt. published by Joh. Saubertus at Nuremberg in 1640, lib. IV, and in the 6orp. Rec., vol. ill, 1130.
Translated into German.
To Mr. Veit Dietrich, teacher of the gospel in the church at Nuremberg.
Hail! I pray to the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Creator of all things, that he may soon restore your dear wife and children to health. Here they are still waiting for Granvella and the papal legate. That is why the conversation has not yet begun. But although many scholars are together, and it seems that there will be more to do than I had suspected, you can still be glad, my dear Veit, that you are not in this din, but can enjoy yourselves at home with your church in peace, since you are praying that God will govern us. Nothing else has been sought with this great lock-up and pretense of unification than that we might be condemned by a preliminary judgment of this assembly, because it did not want to proceed with the papal concilio; or that we might at least become separated and disunited among ourselves. But let us ask God not to leave us with His grace and assistance! I commend to you this guest friend, John Stratius from Flanders, an eloquent and very knowledgeable man. He wishes to see your city and to become acquainted a little with the facilities of the highly famous community, so that he may compare them with other well-established ones he has seen. He has known us for a long time and is a friend, so you may receive him quite kindly. I send you the epigram of Isenaccus, written early in bed. Be well and write again. Nov. 4.
Philip Melanchthon.
1314 Melanchthon's letter to Joachim Camerarius. Nov. 2, 1540.
This letter is found in the London edition of Melanchthon's letters, lid- IV, p. 271, also in Röders Schrift ds Colloquio IVorruab., p. 48. ff. and in Corp. LsL, vol. Ill, 1125.
Translated into German by M. A. Tittel.
To the highly famous and valuable man Joachim Camerarius from Bamberg, at the academy in Tübingen, his best friend.
Hail! I notice that both the larger crowd of the meeting and the beginning of the conversation (or action) foreshadow a greater conflict of minds than I would have thought. I hear that Granvella will be the leader (or chief overseer) of the struggle, who is now the most distinguished councilor of Emperor Carl, who would not have accepted this legation if he did not hope either to disunite our people or to settle the disputes. Therefore, let us ask God to govern our minds in this doctrinal battle and to grant a gentle and quiet outcome!
You see what high things we are arguing about; about the whole opinion (or doctrine) of Paul, about which the ancients judge so differently, since the most noble pieces of religion are contained in the passages Paul treats: what sin is, how one should use the law, which is actually the benefit or use of the gospel, what faith is, what right prayer is, where the human heart must take refuge in right anxieties. How obscure everything is about such high and important things in the commentaries of the ancients and in the entire teaching of the adversaries! In addition, there are many manifest idolatries in the so-called liturgy and other superstitious services. What could be more desirable than that these disputes should be truly, without falsehood, in godly zeal and in a thorough manner, explained and settled from the right sources? For we have argued neither about the church government nor about the episcopal sovereignty, although it is certainly in the interest of the common being to think of means how scholars can be supported and nourished by such goods; but there I have always meant that one will be able to find a way in time. And we would like the bishops to conduct their episcopal sovereignty without tyranny. But when I think of the rage that has been exercised for so many years now, I think that we are going even easier in our cause than we deserve. And what special things can be hoped for from this meeting? The Eight against Goslar has gone out in print these days; with it they are publicly announcing war to us again. And the most impudent washers have been brought here as judges of doctrine, as Eck, Cochläus, Nausea, Mensingern and some such. They will speak over our heads, who do not understand the matter, glow with hatred, and their hearts will be filled with hatred.
and hands stained with the blood of the blessed.
1315 Melanchthon's letter to Veit Dietrich. Nov. 17, 1540.
This letter is found at the same location as No. 1313. In the vorx. Lei, vol. ill, 1158.
Translated from Latin.
To Mr. Veit Dietrich, teacher of the gospel in the church at Nuremberg.
Hail! I have given a letter to you from a certain Flamlander, Stratius, a very learned man; when he comes to you, write to me about him.
Here the public talks or actions have not yet begun. For they are still waiting for Granvella - who is to become the supreme ruler or overseer. The beginning is not at all amusing, because the parties do not talk to each other. I have not yet visited any of those who want to be considered enemies. But I have gone to one or the other of those who want to be milder. They want to persuade me that it is all a mere dispute of words. I answered, as Aristides said to Themistocles: there would be no peace in Athens until they were both drowned in the sea; so we would be worthy of the highest punishment on both sides, if we disturbed the church with unnecessary arguments.
The governors (or leaders) of the churches in our part have been together several times, and we have discussed most of the articles of doctrine in a friendly manner. I wish you could have been there. By the way, I still do not hear anything, why the man, who after all has his domestic soci-
1) "Kilian" is Goldstein. - "Franciscus" will be the chancellor Franz Burkard.
The people, who otherwise love the community so much, would like to be here. I send you an epigram, by which I yesterday invited your fellows to our scholarly fight. For Osiander and Erasmus are wont to reply in verse. Farewell. Nov. 17, Worms (Werdemetiae) 1540. Greetings to Hieronymus Baumgärtner, to whom I intend to write widely these days.
Philip Melanchthon.
1316 Letter from D. Mart. Luther to Philipp Melanchthon at Worms. Nov. 21, 1540.
This letter is found complete, handwritten in the Oo6. "Kart. 451, col. 185. 4. lidl. dotk. From the collection of Caspar Sagittarius at Jena in Schütze, vol. Ill, p. 149 and in De Wette, vol. V, p. 315. Incomplete from 1.I^68tpka1i 8snt. Imtli. äs ^.äiupkor. in Ktroksl-IiÄnnsr, p. 22 and likewise German in Walch. We have translated according to De Wette and completed the letter.
Newly translated from the Latin.
Grace and peace! Today I saw your and Cruciger's letters, my dear Philip, and immediately I took up the pen and hurried to write to you again. I wonder what it may be that Carl suddenly makes this convention so numerous. And I certainly begin to suspect that the matter will be contrary to our expectations and such as it was when I was in Worms in the year 21, where there was a council without the name of a council, and I was called there without the Pope's authority. How? if now the emperor would again allow the name of a council, which is hated by the Romans, to stand, and yet in fact in his name, finally moved by our cries, he would proclaim a national council, without the name of a council and without the authority of the pope? Now you have an honorable cause to reject the pope, since you are not called by the pope, but by the emperor, whom we acknowledge as Lord, but the pope as our enemy and adversary, whom we accuse as a blasphemer, as a godless and unjust judge. Therefore it cannot be demanded of them, nor admitted of us, that he preside and be judge, if
we do not want to mix divine and human rights and suffer one and the same as judge and part. 1) Furthermore, if the same case should occur that they offer you some concessions, so that you also make concessions in return, 2) then you again have an example, 3) that you may answer with all possible humility and modesty: That which is ours and in our power, we are ready to grant not only to the emperor, but to anyone who desires it, for the sake of peace. But what is in the power of God alone, and does not 'even stand with the general church, which according to God has the supreme power and even judgment over the angels [1 Cor. 6, 3.], - so it is possible that from those godless people it may be demanded that we should concede it, but to us, even to the heavenly angels, it is impossible by the nature of the thing, and if we concede it, it is void, and it would be conceded under God's wrath. On the other hand, if they offer concessions that are neither theirs nor in their power, but are in God's power alone, since we have already received them as a gift from God and have recovered them from the robbers, it would be an insult to God if we were to admit that we now receive, as granted by them, what they neither have nor can have, unless they have taken it by theft from God. By this acceptance we would confess that they had been the rightful possessors of these things, 4) and we unjust robbers, and that we would now only be rightful possessors by their forbearance. If this were to happen, we would in many ways and in many respects do injustice to the church, even to the word of God, and to our greatest shame declare that we, from the beginning of our cause, 5) had been wrongdoers. May this sting of Satan be crushed in you by the Blessed One.
1) Only here does the letter begin with Walch.
2) The words: ut viei^iw conosäsnäa oKsratig are found only in Westphal's manuscript'. This addition seems to us to be necessary because of the context, and especially because of the following execution.
3) namely to Luther at Worms.
4 The words: Konus üäsi pos8688or6s the old translator gives: "that they would be confessors of the right faith".
5) ut before inalskaettrrss seems too much for us.
1317 Luther to Melanchthon. November 24, 1540.
This letter is duplicated in the ""printed collection of Aurifabers, vol. Ill, pp. 309 and 310; handwritten also in the 6o6.6otN.451, toi. 185.4; in the latter only the first two paragraphs. Likewise in Ktrobel-liannsr, p. 23 and in Walch. Complete in Schütze, vol. Ill, p. 151 and in De Wette, vol. V, p. 317.
Newly translated from the Latin.
Grace and peace! Yesterday we received two bundles of your letters, my dear Philip, one addressed to your Paul, but the other to us. 2) I give thanks that
1) Here the letter ends with Walch.
2) This first sentence is missing in Walch.
you write everything so diligently and faithfully, I am also happy that there is such great unity among you, that the spirit of Christ is present in you. Everything else is indifferent to me. It may fall wherever God wills. It is enough and abundantly good that we live and die, act and suffer in His grace and mercy. This is finally the goal sought in this life by all saints, from beginning to end. Praise be to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will complete the work He has begun in us.
I hope neither from the Emperor nor from Ferdinand anything good, because the innocent blood with which their hands are stained cries out, and they perhaps pretend something different than they undertake by deed, and which they would also pursue publicly, if their efforts were not either hindered or weakened by the prayer of the church. But this serves nothing for a future lasting peace, as long as their minds, which seek harm, are not changed. 3) Let the will of God be done. May the will of God be done, amen.
4) Again, ours have so often failed to seize the opportunity by the scruff of the neck, and over there have sought in vain to seize it where it is bare. God grant that I am a false prophet, and speak as a dreamer (vanus) and who understands nothing of things, and after the manner of those who are hasty. There is nothing new with us. The King of Sweden, Christian, has written to me and to you, enclosing a small gift, a silver cup, asking that we not believe, but rather blame him if he is blasphemed as an apostate from the Gospel. They insist that the rumor of the Turk's coming is certain, but our tyrants will make the Turk holy, just as in Ezekiel [Cap. 16:46-51] Jerusalem made Samaria and Sodom righteous. Since you are absent, I again scourge my Moses, and he again scourges me, especially with Jacob and Esau. Ao we shall
3) Instead of: äoesnäi at De Wette we took noeWäi.
41 The following to the end of the letter is missing in Walch.
1318 Melanchthon's letter to Joachim Camerarius. Nov. 24, 1540.
This letter is found in the London edition of Melanchthon's Briese, lib. IV, p. 773 and in the Oorp. Lei, vol. ill, 1162.
Translated into German.
To the highly famous and valuable man Joachim Camerarius of Bamberg, teacher of fine arts at the academy of Tübingen, his best friend.
Hail! I am exceedingly fond of Matthew's kindness and courtesy, and I thank him for coming here with your most pleasant letter, the sweetness of which is an immense pleasure to me in our present troubles.
I cannot yet describe the history of this discussion meeting, because it is still lacking in the beginning, and the leaders of the fight themselves do not yet know what kind of order they should prescribe for such a doctrinal fight. But this is already great: we will have no judges. For the leaders are honest good people, but they do not understand the things and the dispute, and, as it goes on the stage, they have washers (or tongue-thrashers), e.g. Conrad, my old journeyman, and the like, as their leaders; although I hear that Conrad is to be among the first fighters (or knights).
It seems, however, that there will be a lot of trouble when the disputation proceeds. Therefore, let us pray to God that he may well govern and direct the whole dispute! I see that the church must be tested with unusual and strange danger; therefore, I am quite composed, and I send myself into the matter; I also want, dear God, to be quite thorough, clear and modest in our matter, which we must not throw away carelessly, neither because of fear of the tyrants' threats, nor because of our frivolity. And I am now
I have a much freer mind, because I think only of the teachings and no longer think of princes.
You will be so good as to present the holy cause to God with heartfelt prayer, which both you and yours and your church at home will send to Him, and which I know will be pleasing and acceptable to God.
I send my greetings to your righteous sweetheart and whole family. If this meeting allows me to gain a little leisure and remaining time, I will take a walk to you. For I will not expect you to come to us in such a swarm of highwaymen and soldiers.
1319 Melanchthon's letter to Hieran. Baumgärtner. Worms, Nov. 28, 1540.
This letter is found in the Leiden edition of Melanchthon's letters (I^nsäuni Latav. 1647), v. 280 and in the 6orx. Röt., vol. ill, 1175.
Germanized.
Hail! God, the Father of our Savior JEsu Christ and Creator of the whole world, keep you healthy, for the sake of His Church! And I also hope that God will still preserve His seed in well-mannered cities, that the spark of the heavenly teaching will not be completely extinguished, which, as John says, still shines to some extent in the darkness. In this hope I unite my prayer with that of the Church, that God may save you and your kind from piety. The Church has not often had the right efforts of kings, popes and princes on its side, for they otherwise have their heads full of ambition and other desires. Individual families have always held more to the gospel and helped the church, so that no king in Syria or Phoenicia took Elijah in, but a poor widow, in whose house the love for the true religion had remained. For it is believed that Jonah was the son of this widow, Abraham, Isaac
1) On a note attached to this letter are seven Latin verses, which Melanchthon, as he notes in a short postscript, composed extemporaneously. The content has no reference to our matter.
and Jacob were not only private persons, but even pilgrims and strangers. So, I hope, God will also now preserve a remnant of the church in such great upheavals of the world. Therefore, I exhort you to bear with serenity of mind and some hope the trouble and worry you have for the protection of good things.
The history of the meeting is still very short. The order of the disputation is discussed. You know Aristotle's saying: that the common beings would stand well if those who are masters of the arts judged and understood it. We have received as judges (Mittlem) Junkers and some canons, who just do not know much about distant studies, and they have again, as in the plays, their pre-dancers, as Aeschines calls them, περιτρίμματα της αγοράς, some tongue-thrashers or jurists. God help us! Farewell. Worms, Nov. 28, 1540.
1320. content of the speech given by the imperial envoy, Lord of Granvella, to the Estates in the meeting at Worms.
Nov. 25, 1540.
The following eight documents up to No. 1327 are taken from Röder's writing äs oolloyu. IVormat., p. 58 ff. This speech is abridged here, fully Latin in the 6orp. Rec, vol. ill, 1164-1168.
Translated into German by Ll. Aug. Tittel.
On Catharine's Day [Nov. 25], the presidents met again at the request of the presidents. There the Lord of Granvella, after reading out the imperial letters and orders, spoke thus. After reading out the imperial letters and orders, he spoke thus:
I consider that you, most reverend, most illustrious, most respectable (magnifici) etc. Gentlemen, all know well that Her Imperial Majesty has announced this famous meeting. Maj. has announced this famous meeting, and that the Emperor's undoubted will is not only that in this distinguished assembly of so many learned and honored men from all estates and orders the matter of religion, and how to establish good harmony and preserve the common peace, be dealt with, but also that what has been well examined and considered beforehand in this dispute be further brought up afterwards at the already announced Imperial Diet, and that it be reported what has been concluded between the two parts of the meeting.
(2) It is true that the most gracious Emperor, by whose command and in whose name I am to excuse Her Imperial Majesty's absence here at the outset, has cordially wished this present event to take place. Maj.'s absence here, sincerely wished to make this present
The Emperor was prevented from attending the meeting in person, however, by regimental concerns as well as by other domestic adversities and other matters that frequently assailed her. However, Her Imperial Majesty was prevented from attending by regimental worries as well as by other domestic adversities and matters that frequently assailed her. And the Most Serene King Ferdinand, the Emperor's brother, who also formerly took upon himself and carried a good part of this business in the Hagenau meeting and actions, according to the will and command of Her Imperial Majesty, has been prevented from attending. Maj.'s will and command, would also gladly have appeared now to deal with this matter, if Her Royal Majesty had not had other needs. Maj. had not been drawn to other necessary business and, as it were, tied up.
3. but since Her Imperial Maj. Maj. has instructed me to represent your position with the most complete and honest authority and command, as such have already been handed over and read, I cannot refuse such an imperial command with any legitimate cause or excuse, although I recognize my inability in this regard. I can refuse and deny this imperial order. However, it is impossible to say how cordially Her Imperial Majesty wants the whole of Germany. Maj. wants all of Germany and wishes nothing more than that it be freed from such protracted and now almost entrenched discord and disputes, which have become so prevalent in churches and states. And I have no doubt that you, who have been sent and gathered here, will know enough and each of you will appreciate how dangerous and bad the situation is for the cause of our religion, and how necessary it is that the churches should one day be put on a firm footing and brought back into order.
Because it is so, you will easily see that it is above all incumbent upon you to control these present evils by godly and Christian counsel and to move the passport, so that the poison does not spread and cause more trouble every day. As in the case of a conflagration, each of the citizens must run to help extinguish it, so you will also now make every effort to extinguish this common conflagration and to restore public peace, tranquility and unity. To this end, not only must the highly confused state and disruption of the commonwealth here and there provoke you, but also your and everyone's minds must be inflamed and inflamed, partly by godliness itself, partly by zeal for the most holy faith, partly by love for the commonwealth.
(5) Dear ones, consider here what mischief and common misery have flooded all of Germany from these disagreements and discords and have oppressed it until now. For that is where so much murder and bloodshed comes from,
and, most miserable of all, religion has been ruined, love has been eradicated and the ornaments of the old Catholic Church have been torn apart. And there is no one so sensible and eloquent who can speak and tell all such evils. Germany, which before was highly popular because of its religion, faith, devotion and all virtues, and in which now so much misery and distress have arisen for some years, is highly distressed that it is no longer the former one, and that one says everywhere that the origin of all this evil lies in her bosom. And certainly, if such misfortune is not soon vigorously controlled, one evil will always follow the other and grow in heaps.
6 Because Her Imperial Majesty has instituted this peaceful and Christian discussion about the dispute of our religion and our faith for the glory of God. Maj. has instituted this peaceful and Christian discussion of the controversy of our religion and our faith for the glory of God, it is to be hoped, however, that a mind will be brought here that does not strive for vain honor or quarrels, but is Christian and harmless, and has JESUS CHRIST the Crucified before its eyes. And do not doubt that Christ our Savior, with outstretched arms, asks this of you all. The Roman Pontiff, our most Sublime Emperor and King Ferdinand, also asks the same. And therefore I also ask by the bowels of Christ's mercy and suffering, and beseech (or implore) by the power of the emperors, 1) that you nevertheless sew up again the completely torn and fragmented skirt of Christ, and remember your Christian name, which you received in holy baptism, and this your highly famous German nation. For whatever evil will continue to arise from now on and in the future, because of hardening in the preconceived opinions and errors, 2) in the absence of unity, will be attributed to all of you as the authors, be it so.
On the other hand, if you will behave in a holy, modest and moderate manner in this present highly important business, you will do God and the Church a most pleasant service, and afterwards also the Imperial Majesty will bind you to high graces and favors. Maj. will highly bind you to high graces and favors, and Her Imperial Majesty will take care of you. Maj. will see to it that all these matters are fully accomplished and brought into correctness at the next announced Imperial Diet.
(8) Whatever else may be necessary to settle this dispute will be brought forward gradually as the matter proceeds.
1) Here Granvella has even started to cry. (Walch.)
2) So I read: srrorurü for rumorurn. (Walch.)
1321 Response of the Catholic Estates to the speech of the Lord of Granvella, delivered at Worms, which was sent to him.
Nov. 26, 1540.
See the previous number.
Translated into German by M. Aug. Tittel.
The most reverend and noble, dignified and high-born Electors, Princes and Estates, Ambassadors, Councillors and Envoys, who have been summoned here, and yesterday were summoned together by the order of your distinguished Majesty, have received from your distinguished Majesty the most gracious greeting of Imperial Majesty. Thereafter, they have also heard the letter of credence (or certification), together with the order and authority of their Imperial Majesty, read to your distinguished lordship's person. They have also heard from Your Lordship's emphatic and graceful speech of Her Imperial Majesty the most gracious and graciously gracious. Maj.'s most gracious and entirely fatherly affection, love, concern and effort, by which they have hitherto been at most anxious to settle and reconcile this discord of our most holy religion, which has arisen in the highly famous and praiseworthy Germany. By what causes also Her Imperial Maj. Maj. has been moved to appoint your distinguished lordship as her highest, secret and state councillor, and a man who is both fervent in excellent godliness and in high esteem with her Imperial Majesty. Majesty, and who has a heartfelt desire to promote the common good, salvation and peace, to this meeting of a Christian discussion of religion and to endow him with the dignity of an envoy; as well as for what reasons Your Glory was driven to accept such an office and assigned dignity. They have understood all this perfectly.
2 Because they have recently consulted about such a submission, which shows both all the grace and benevolence of Their Imperial Majesty and the good will and good endeavor of Your Highly Handsome Glory, we have been ordered to send this reply to Your Majesty. Majesty, as well as demonstrating a willingness and good endeavor on the part of Your Most Eminent Majesty, we have been ordered to return this answer to Your Most Eminent (or Strict) Majesty in everyone's name.
3. first of all, the councillors and envoys of the prince princes and other princes and estates, on behalf of their masters, then also on their own behalf and personally, have issued such most gracious, written and verbal, order.
3) This is the basis for our time determination, which is confirmed by No. 1344.
They have accepted this greeting with the utmost humility, knowing that when their princes and lords hear of it, it will be most pleasant and pleasing to them. For this reason, they also again express their most sincere and most grateful greetings to Their Imperial Majesty. Maj. with all sensible and most dutiful reverence for all salvation, welfare, and happiness and prosperity of the regiment and all things from the highest God.
4 Afterwards, they were delighted to hear, both from the certification and the letter of authority, that their Imperial Majesty was so concerned about public salvation and especially about the fortification of godliness that they would do everything possible to help your most gracious Majesty to settle this matter amicably. Majesty is so concerned about public salvation, and especially about the fortification of divinity, that they have instructed Your Highly Respectable Majesty to do and administer everything that can contribute to the amicable settlement of this highly important matter. For this reason, they have also deemed it fair that we, also in the name of their princes, should not express all the thanks due to Your Imperial Majesty. Majesty, but at least as much as we can and may, namely the greatest and most sensible thanks. They have also ordered us to express our gratitude to your highly respectable Majesty that she has taken upon herself this so high as godly and honest office for the benefit of godliness and for the benefit of our princes and lords, and thus for the sake of the common good, by which she has united both our princes and lords and the whole of Germany with an everlasting excellent benefit.
5. that, by the way, they indicate how Imperial Majesty wants to be helped. Majesty, with disregard of all other, although important, matters, would like to be heartily helped in this main matter concerning our Christian religion and faith: This has not only been most agreeable to them, but they also wish to inform your most gracious Majesty that they have been delegated here by their Electors, other Princes and Lords, and that they are striving in every conceivable way and means to ensure that the dispute that has arisen and prevailed in Germany for several years is settled by Christian and godly means, and that the truth shines forth and breaks out; and that, after the cause and origin of all disagreements have been removed, a godly peace and harmony be achieved. They admit that such clamor has been stirred up in Germany. And [it] some peoples of this laudable nation have wanted to advance, that they sizu^ given rise to such mischief. In the meantime, however, Your Gracious Grace will have to be informed that our princes and lords have ordered their councillors and God-pleasers that here the primal
The cause and origin of such epidemics should be investigated in a godly and Christian manner through joint consultation and deliberation, and the most diligent care should be taken when they are found, as then by Her Imperial Majesty's means and most gracious assistance or order. Majesty's means and most gracious assistance or order to help in this matter.
(6) And since all have such an intention, they also hope to testify and declare themselves in this Christian trade that they will easily reject this suspicion of other peoples from themselves and will not let it come to this that the whole blame is passed on to them or their princes and lords.
7 And because in both ways they have the best of the grace of Imperial Majesty promised both in writing and orally. Majesty, and they also expect a great deal of good from your eminent lordship, who has a great reputation and peculiar skill and experience in all things: so they implore that her Imperial Majesty continue in the manner in which she has begun, and that your eminent lordship continue in the same way as she has begun. Maj. will continue in the manner in which she has begun, and that your eminent lordship will engage in trade in the very manner in which she has promised. In which way they hope that the disputes remaining after so much applied effort 1) will finally be united and settled to God's praise, to our holy religion and Christian faith for adornment and establishment, and to the church's long-desired improvement. Her Roman Imperial Majesty will do a work on this. Majesty will do a work that will be considered for a Catholic and rightly German Emperor and Major of the Empire, and your highly respectable magnificence will also do a thing that is entirely in accordance with her custodial office: to which we hereby bestow our best wishes.
1322 The articles proposed to the President of the Convention, concerning the form in which the discussion should take place. November 26, 1540. 2)
See No. 1320. in 6orp. Red, vol. ill, 1176.
Article by the councils to the presidency, the princes, princes and estates to the Christian non-binding conversation ordered councils orally presented.
1st To the first. After an article has been placed in the Haaenau agreement, that the princes and rulers, in the reported agreement to the Christian
1) dissita for dissidia. (Walch.)
2) This time determination results from No. 1344; erroneously appended to No. 1337 by Walch.
Each of them shall appoint and send one, two or three councillors for such a discussion, but in such a way that the councillors appointed by each Elector and Prince shall have no more than one vote, and that to the same extent the protesters shall also appoint for such a discussion, but so far no part has appointed the number and names of the persons who are to be appointed for the reported discussion, and, as is proper, notified and handed them over: The Councilors appointed to the Presidency have deemed it good that such notification of the number and names of the persons be made by both parties and, as is proper, be delivered to the Mainz Chancellery.
(2) When the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, recently indicated in their presentation, which they had made to both parties, that after the Roman Royal Majesty had initially been present at this action and had helped to make the farewell at Hagenau, it was not proper to exclude Her Royal Majesty's Ambassadors and Councillors from this action, and the Councillors appointed by the protesting Estates replied that it would not be contrary to them to exclude the Ambassadors and Councillors from this action. However, the councilors appointed by the protesting estates replied that they would not object to admitting the royal councilors to the discussion, but that equality of votes be maintained, and that other princes' and potentates' councilors, who were present or might subsequently come, be invited to attend and be present as listeners, The presidents have considered that the Hagenauian farewell, as it should be kept with order and the number of persons ordered to the discussion, gives certain measures that it should remain fair with the same farewell. And since the Hagenau by-laws also provide that this discussion should be non-binding, and thus the number of persons and voices is set solely so that one is certain of the number of speakers 1) and not that one should make a multiple 2) out of such voices and speeches and conclude in the matter, the councils also leave it at the Hagenau by-laws for the sake of such voices. As far as the Royal Majesty's Ambassadors and Councillors are concerned, the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, have reported that the Royal Ambassadors and Councillors are to report to the Imperial Commissario and Orator. Commissario and Orator, and represent one person with him; the councilors leave it at that.
3. on the other hand, in the Hagenauische Abschied der Notarien halben, notaries and clerks of both parts are ordered in equal proportions.
1) "Redenden" put by us after No. 1337 instead of: "Reden".
2) "a Mehrers" - a majority.
However, since the number of notaries is not expressed in the reported resolution, and in order to prevent excessiveness in such a case, the councils have provided that two notaries and clerks from each part, and thus in total four notaries and clerks from both parts, are to be ordered and appointed. That these four notaries shall also be charged with a special duty by the appointed presidents to faithfully and diligently write down all acts that come before them, so that they may be properly registered and brought to record.
(4) It is further provided that the same notaries and clerks shall not communicate and give out copies, transcripts, or other certificates to anyone (who is not appointed to this conversation) of any act. However, if the Electors, Princes, and Estates' Councillors would ever need copies in this action at any time, the same shall be communicated to them by the Notaries. However, the Councillors shall not communicate or give them to anyone who has not been ordered to attend this meeting, but shall keep them secret until the report to be made to the Imperial Majesty. Majesty is to take place. However, in the event that they would send such an act to their sovereigns, they will admonish their sovereigns and persuade them to keep such an act secret in the same manner until the report, as previously announced. It is also considered necessary by the presidents for this matter that nothing is written about the action of this conversation or published in print until the reported report. For as far as the main matter and the articles of which the discussion is to be held are concerned, it is the discretion of the presidents that the superfluity be cut off in all ways, and that for this reason the protesting estates' councilors put the articles on which they intend to insist in writing and hand them over to the presidents, and put them in such a way that they are Christian, substantial, and of such a nature that a Christian settlement may be held on them.
1323rd response of the protesters to the president's proposed article of the conversation half.
See No. 1320. in 6orx. Rsk., vol. ill, 1178.
Venerable, well-born, honorable, dignified and highly learned, gracious and favorable gentlemen! The princes, also the estates and cities
of the Augsburg Confession and the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of the same religion, who have been brought here by their lords and superiors for themselves and for others of their religious affinity for this Christian day of discussion, have thought best to report the following opinion to Your Grace and favor in response to the written reply submitted. First of all, regarding the number of persons for such a meeting etc., the reported councilors, envoys and ambassadors know how to remember what the Hagenauian farewell and Imperial Majesty's letter can do for them. Maj.'s letter are capable of and entail. According to the same, they have appeared here, have had themselves heard at the first hearing of their order, and shall not be lacking in naming and ordering the persons where this is required, as they also hand over herewith a list of the persons who, on account of their lords and fellow relatives, have been sent to this Christian discussion; but that the others, sent by this part, are not excluded to listen, because they have the same order; which shall also be left to that part. When the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of this part were asked in their next reply, since other princes and imperial states had come here, or would like to come, to let them also be present as listeners at the Christian discussion; and by articles handed over by Your Grace and in your favor it was reported that the Hagenau agreement, as it should be kept with the order of the number of persons, gives certain measures, and should remain with the same etc., so the councillors and envoys of this part may not think that this is contrary or inappropriate to the Hagenau agreement. For since this treaty primarily concerns the German nation, and then the estates are to be informed at the future Imperial Diet, it was considered that there should be no hesitation in allowing other estates, as the princes, counts and imperial cities' ambassadors, to be present at such a discussion, not that they should be drawn in by some part, but that they should be present at such a discussion as listeners, and so that they may also report this most important treaty to their lords and sovereigns. That also by the voices in the Hagenauian farewell not to conclude the several, because this trade is not binding 1) etc., let the
1) "unverbindlich" by us set after the previous number instead of: "unverpünctlich" betWalch, so also later still several times. The 6orp. Rsk. has our reading.
The councilors and envoys have left it at the letter of the same article, as agreed, and are also in agreement with Your Grace and in favor of it. However, the two and twenty votes have all been heard and diligently recorded, so that it may be known how many votes agree or disagree on each article, and subsequently how many votes have been heard by the Imperial Majesty and the Imperial Estates. Majesty and the Imperial Estates at the future Imperial Diet. For the sake of the Royal Majesty, they will leave the article as it is, subject to the next notification and amendment.
On the other hand, concerning the notaries or clerks, they are also satisfied with the proposed number, and that the same are taken into special duty, as one would compare on both sides; however, that substitutes would be admitted to them, that it would also be kept with issuing and copying the copies as indicated; but for the sake of their lords and superiors, they are obliged to write to them submissively and officially, to keep such action secret until the time of the relation. But it is not up to them to bind them or to give them measure. Do not doubt, however, that their sovereign and princely graces and favors will know how to keep themselves within the fee and without reference. Although the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of this part have no misgivings that these things, which are meant and carried out for the glory of God and the expansion of His divine word and a Christian reformation of the churches, also peace and tranquility, are being done in the light, they are not afraid of this, praise be to God: nevertheless, for the sake of their person and the publication, they want to know how to keep to themselves in such a way that no one should have to complain about this with fairness. Finally, concerning the main matter, that the Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors of this part should hand over the articles on which they intend to insist, and place them in such a way that they are Christian, considerably etc., they consider such placement of the articles without necessity, because the Hagenauian Treaty and the Imperial Majesty's most gracious wishes have been fulfilled. Majesty's most gracious grant gives measure to this point, namely, to take the Augsburg Confession and Apologia before the hand, to discuss all points and each one in particular in a friendly, Christian, yet non-committal manner, and to use all possible diligence to bring all erroneous points to Christian unity, comparison and right understanding etc. Accordingly, the councillors, envoys and ambassadors draw and refer to the reported confession and apology, which they also submit herewith, with the request that the councillors and ambassadors of the other country should not be held responsible for any misunderstandings.
The church has asked the people who have deficiencies in one or more articles to listen to them in a friendly manner, and to let themselves be heard with a Christian and proper answer, and to help with the utmost diligence to promote everything that is conducive to Christian unity and settlement by means of the Holy Scriptures, and to the Christian reformation of the churches, as well as to the preservation of peace and tranquility. And have not wished to behave in such a way to Your Grace and favor in response to the articles of official and friendly opinion sent to you.
1324. the protesting other the president given answer about the form of the conversation.
See No. 1320. in Oorp. Vol. Ill, 1181.
Gracious and favorable gentlemen!
The Councillors and Ambassadors of the Augsburg Confession have heard from all sides, in Your Grace's favor, further reports and concerns about several articles, as they were presented yesterday evening. Firstly, concerning the other persons, who have been brought here on account of our most gracious lords and superiors for this day of discussion, and have the same order with those who have been expressed in the list handed over to them, that the same should also be present at such discussion as listeners etc., And hoped that such should not have had any doubts in Your Grace's and favor's mind, nor should it have been considered inconsistent with Hagenau's farewell, since the same was not taken or cut off in such farewell. For although there is a report of eleven votes of one part, and that one or three councilors may be appointed to each, it is not expressed therein that no more persons, who have been sent with the entire command, and thus belong in one vote, should not also be admitted as listeners, considering that this is more conducive to the cause than detrimental, and also that this should be a Christian, non-binding conversation and trade etc. However, Your Grace and favor have considered otherwise, and for this purpose, before Hagenau and elsewhere, our most gracious and gracious lords and sovereigns have allowed all kinds of disparity, so that their princely and princely graces and favor may not ever be desired. The councillors, envoys and ambassadors must also allow this to happen, and this must be reported to their gracious and princely graces and favors, so that some unjust deficiency is noted in Christian action, settlement and reformation of the churches.
The report shall be made to the most gracious lords and superiors. And for this reason, the discussion must not be delayed or hindered. On the other hand, for the sake of the votes, the Councillors and Envoys of this part understand the Hagenau Agreement and Your Grace and Favor's opinion to mean that each of the 22 persons speaking shall be allowed to speak. Gn. and Favor's opinion that each of the 22 speaking persons' voices be heard in the conversation in particular, and how many of the same would compare to each article or not, that such be recorded with diligence and differently by the notaries set down, therefore they also leave it at that. Thirdly, as far as the substitutes assigned to the notaries are concerned, [the] councilors, envoys and ambassadors considered that the same should be at hand without anyone's complaint, so that they could also be used in conversation in case of necessity. However, if there should ever be such a great concern, they also want to leave it at Your Grace's and favor's proposal. But concerning the form of the oath, that the same shall be submitted and delivered beforehand to the councilors, envoys and ambassadors, they accept it with official and friendly thanks; however, with the reservation that they may then let themselves be heard on it in case of their necessity. Fourthly, as far as the names of some other estates are concerned, such list 1) has been rewritten according to their request elsewhere, and do hereby deliver it to Your Grace and favor. 2) Finally, for the sake of the writings, that the same should be written, also in German and Latin, Your Grace and favor know to remember that in a Christian conversation on the Confession and Apologia, by virtue of the Emperor's Majesty's decree, it is necessary to refer to the Confession and Apologia. Majesty's invitation, the councillors and envoys have been prepared and have appeared for this purpose, have offered to do so, and want to have drawn on it. If, however, it should happen that both parties agree to hand over something in writing, in such a case they will know how to keep to the submission of the copies in Latin and German, and otherwise leave it at the previous notices and offers.
1) No. 1325.
2) Here is a nota, as it seems, Ebner's: "Such directory is the persons halben nothing changed, but only in that, where Augsburg and Ulm stood with each other, Ulm is omitted, and where Bremen, Hamburg and Magdeburg were all set, Bremen alone has remained, so that it is a bad change, and in the substance nothing at all. (6orx. Rsk.)
1325. list of persons ordered to talk on the Protestant side, with request and reservation, as requested and contained in the present writing.
See No. 1320.
Saxony, churfürstlich.
Chancellor.
Melanchthon.
Justus Menius.
Hessian.
Chancellor.
Martinus Bucerus.
Adam of Fulda.
Saxony, Duke Henrichisch.
D. Andreas Camicianus.
Johann Brmtius.
Nicolaus Scheubelein, Lic.
Brandenburg.
Friederich von Knoblochsdorf.
M. Simon Schneeweis.
Kilianus Goldslein, Doctor.
Lüneburgian.
D. Nicolaus Holstein.
John Stormy.
John Calvinus.
Würtemberg.
Balthasar von Gültlingen.
M. Erhardus Schnepf.
D. Balthasar Keuffelein.
Pomeranian.
Nicolaus Glasserus.
D. Jakob Philippi.
Wolfram Weddeln.
Strasbourg.
H. Jakob Sturm.
D. Wolfgang Capito.
Simon Grineus.
Augsburgian.
D. Conrad Heel.
Georg Besserer.
Martinus Frecht.
Nurembergian.
Erasmus Ebner.
D. Wenzeslaus Linck.
Andreas Osiander.
Bremish.
Nicolaus Amsdorf.
Daniel von Buren.
John of Amsterdam.
Recorder.
Doctor Caspar Kreuzinger.
Wolfgangus Musculus.
Cum protestatione: whether more convenient persons from other princes and estates of this part will arrive, then to give others to them in some place. Item, if one becomes ill or burdened with business, that another may be changed in his place. Item, that the remaining persons, who are also here, and who have command and authority with the others, may be listeners.
1326: List of envoys and ambassadors at the Diet of Worms.
Siebe No. 1320. In 6orp. Lek., Vol. III, 1160 and 1217, similar lists are found, the former in Latin, the other in German, partly with very different names.
For Pabst's sake.
Thomas Campegius, Archiepiscopus Veltrensis. N., Magister Palatii.
N., episcopus Aquilae.
King of France because of. Petrus Paulus Vergerius, Extraordinarii.
Imperial.
Nicolaus Perenottus, Lord of Granvella.
Johannes de Nanes, 1) provost at Merwill.
Gerhardus of Veldrick Heberüs.
N., Theologus Hispanicus.
Robertus Scotus, Theologus Sorbonicus, a born blind man.
Ferdinandian.
Bishop of Seckau.
Fridericus Nausea.
Martinus Kügelin, 2) Doctor Friburgensis.
Johannes Cochleus.
Mainzian.
Mr. Johann von Ehrenberg, Dymdechant etc.
Mr. Julius Pflug.
D. Conrad Braun.
1) In No. 1310 he is called "Johann von Ravia".
2) In No. 1312: Wings (spheres)". 6orx. Rec: WuMuA and "Kuglm".
D. Jobst Hutfelder.
Mr. Michael Helding, Auxiliary Bishop at Mainz.
Johann Monnsinger, 1) auxiliary bishop at Magdeburg.
Ambrose Pelargus, preacher monk.
D. Jakob Reuter.
Trierian.
Georg, Lord of Elz, Amtmann zur Pfalz.
Johann Enschringen, 2) Chancellor.
Nicolaus Meinreich, D. Theologia.
Cologne.
Count Dietrich von Manderschid.
Bernhard von Hagen, Chancellor.
D. Johann Gröpper.
D. Eberhardus Pillich, 3) Franciscan FriarsPrior.
Palatine.
Friederich von Fleckenstein, Hofmeister.
Heinrich Hass, Chancellor.
M. Heinrich Stall, 4) Preacher and Ordinary at Heidelberg
M. Matthias Kailer, 5) Ordinarius Theologia at Heidelberg.
Bernhart Frainshamer, / Secretärii.
Peter Harer, 6) /
Brandenburg.
Mr. Leonhard Kellner, 7) Licent. and Cathedral Provost at Havelberg.
M. Schieding, former marshal.
Alexander Halesius Scotus, Doctor.
Johann Ludenius, 8) Ecclesiastes zu Frankfurt an der Oder.
Salzburgian.
D. Leonhardus Marstaller, 9) Ordinary at Ingolstadt.
Nicolaus Apel, Prepositus Maspurgensis.
Johannes Wenzler, D., Minister provincialis Ord. Minorum.
1) In No. 1314 and No. 1327: "Mensinger", also Spalatin, Annalen, p. 459.
2) Spalatin, Annalen, p. 458 writes: "Eintzingen".
3) Spalatin 1. o. writes instead of: "Hagen" "Hachen"; instead of "Gröpper" Oroddsrus; instead of: "Pillich" "Bellicken".
4) Spalatin: "Stoll" and "Hesse".
5) Spalatin 1. o.: "fence".
6) Spalatin: "Harrach.
7) Spalatin: "Keller" and "Scheiding".
8) Spalatin: "Ludicken.
9) Spalatin: "Marsteller" and "Appel, Prediger zu MoSpurg".
Strasbourg.
Lord Johann, Count of Eisenberg.
Jobst von Seebach.
D. Christoph Wollsinger. 10)
Johann Armbruster, Lic. Theologia.
Bavarian.
N. Seubelsdorfer, provost at Munich.
D. Johann Eck, Theologus.
Matthias Kretz, dean of Munich.
Jülich.
Johann von Flatten, 11) Provost, Scholaster at Ach. Conradus Herzbach.
Albertus Künig, Doctor Theologiä.
Saxon churfürstlich.
Mr. Hanns von Dölzk, Knight.
Franciscus Burkart, Chancellor.
D. Kilian Goldstein.
Philip Melanchthon.
D. Caspar Kreuzinger.
Justus Menius.
Saxon, Duke Heinrichian.
D. Andreas Camicianus.
Nicolaus Scheubel, Licent.
Margrave George's and Alberti's envoys:
Friedrich von Knoblochsdorf, Johann Rierer, 12) / Predicanten M. Simon Schneeweis, / praorcanren.
Lüneburgian.
D. Nicolaus Holstein.
Würtemberg.
Balthasar von Gültlingen.
D. Philipp Lanng.
Erhart Schnepf.
D. Balthasar N.
Pomeranian.
Wolf von Weddeln, ) lawyers D. Jacobus Philippi, /
Nicolaus Glasserus, Theologus.
Hessian.
Johann Feucht, Chancellor.
Hermann Schleier.
Alexander of the Dhann. 13)
10) Spalatin: "Welsinger.
11) Spalatin: "Platen", "Heresbachius" and "König".
12) Oorp. Lei.: k'Iursr.
13) Spalatin: "Thann.
Adam von Fuld.
Gerardus Noriomagus. 1) Johannes Pistorius.
Strasbourg, city.
Jakob Sturm.
Mathis Pfarrer [Senator]. D. Wolfgang Capito.
Martin Buzer.
John Calvinus.
John Stormy.
Simon Grineus.
Augsburgian.
Matthias Langemantel.
Jakob Herprot. D. Conrad Heel. Wolfgang Meuslein. Mempergian Prepos.
Franksurtic.
Oppier of Mühlheim.
Costnitz.
Joachim N., General Counsel.
Ulmish.
Georg Besserer.
Martin Weitman. 2)
Martin Frecht, Preacher.
Hall.
Johann Brenz, preacher.
Bremen.
Daniel von Büren.
John of Amsterdam, preacher.
Hamburg.
Martinus Webel, Syndicus.
Magdeburg.
Nicolaus Amsdorf, preacher.
1327 Directory of the Papal Estates, ordered to the discussion session.
See No. 1320.
List of persons who have been ordered to talk by the Catholic side.
Mainzian churfürstliche.
Mr. Michael Helding, Auxiliary Bishop at Mainz.
Ambrose Pelargus, D. Theologia, Order of Preachers.
1) In No. 1312: "Noviomagus", also in Spalatin.
2) In No. 1312: "Weickmann," also in Spalatin.
Trier churfürstliche.
Johann von Enschringen, D., Chancellor. Georg, Lord of Elz, Amtmann zur Pfalz. Nicolaus Meinreich, D. Theologia.
Kölnische churfürstliche.
Bernhard von Hagen, Chancellor.
Eberhard Billigk, D. and Prior Carmelite Order.
Palatine churfürstliche.
Magister Heinrich Stoll, 3) Preacher to the Holy Spirit,
Magister Matthias Kailer, both ordinaries at Heidelberg.
Brandenburg churfürstliche.
Leonhardus Keller, 4) Lic., cathedral provost at Havelberg.
Alexander Alesius Scotus, Doctor.
Mr. Johann Ludenius, Ecclesiastes at Frankfurt on the Oder.
Archbishop of Magdeburg.
Johann Mensinger, D., Suffraganeus at Halberstadt.
Conradus Micosus, teacher at the Preacher's Monastery in Mainz.
Archbishop's at Salzburg.
Leonhardus Marstaller, D., Ordinarius at Ingolstadt.
Nicolaus Appel, D., Predicator Maspurgensis.
Johannes Wenzler, D., Minister provincialis Ordinis Minorum.
Episcopal at Strasbourg.
Johann Armbruster, Theologiä Lic.
Duchy of Wilhelm in Bavaria.
Johann Eccius, D., Protonotarius etc.
Duke Ludwig of Bavaria.
Matthias Krezius, dean of Munich.
Jülich.
Johann von Flatten, Provost, Scholaster at Ach. Conradus Herzpachius, Doctor.
Albertus Künig, D. Theologiä.
3) In No.1326: Stable.
4) In No.1326: Waiter.
1328 Speech delivered by the Papal Nuncio Campegius at the Assembly of Estates on December 8, 1540.
This and the following writing is also found in Röder 1. 6. p. L2. Also in the writing of Cochlaeus, whose title Walch gives thus: äs sollocsuio ^Vormatisnsi brsus ^postolisum 8.1). X. knuli papas III. sxliortatio R. D. Ldomas OämpSMi, spissopi I'sltrsusis, sataioFUk oratorum st tlisolo^orum, Hui aä sollo<zuiuln missi kusrnnt MOXOI. LIoAUntias nä äiuurn Vistorsrn sxsnäskat l'ruuoissus llsdsm. Octav. In 6orp. LsL., vol. ill,' 1193.
Translated into German by A. Aug. Tittel.
1. The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, high-born Lord, worthy, magnifici, and noble lords, honorable brethren and superiors, the Lord, I say, and Saviour Jesus Christ, who out of infinite love toward us became man, when he prayed to the Father Almighty, prayed not only for those who believed, but also for those who would believe, that they all might become one, as he in the Father and the Father in him; And called this a new commandment, which he gave unto his disciples, that they should love one another, that by this every man might know that they were his disciples; and enjoined them nothing so sharp and so often as love and good will one to another. For Paul, the chosen vessel, taught us to have love above all things as the bond of perfection, and to love our neighbor as ourselves, because thereby the whole law would be fulfilled; and that those in whom love did not prevail would fall into vain babblings, and as a tinkling bell would be unfit for all good works.
If we, dear lords and brethren, had remembered this commandment, there would certainly not have arisen so much strife and contention among us. Of which it may well be said that at first it sprang from some impulse of love, but now it has come to such a pass that we have abandoned love and harmony among ourselves, and have broken out into open enmity and bitter strife. Soon after, horrible wars that have arisen and terrible defeats, as well as the divisions of Christian minds, have so ravaged this noble land that I can hardly see that it is still as I saw it twenty years ago. Some popes have done everything to control this evil, but they have not been able, on any occasion, with any pleading, with any legation sent to the imperial diets in Germany, to bring about a settlement of these religious disputes. Even Pope Paul the Third, who had established a free Christian concilium after
He did not fare any better, since they had been there for two months and few had arrived. Since they had been there for two months and few had arrived, he had to postpone the concilium to another time and place, but with the intention that he would hold it in the presence of Her Imperial Majesty. Majesty. Quite recently, however, the most invincible Emperor Carl the Fifth ordered this Christian discussion (or meeting) as a forerunner, after which he also announced the Regensburg Diet that a quite proven means would be invented against this old plague and that it would be taken away. This, as the present Roman Church's firstborn and obedient son, and thus its protector and bailiff, desires from the bottom of my heart that this noble country recognize its dear mother (the Church) in peace, and has demanded, as also the highest bishop has ordered me, that I be here with you, and exhort to that which could bring peace and tranquility, as I have always been and will continue to be especially devoted to you all with love and goodwill.
(3) Therefore, dearest lords and brethren, I think that you already know what a great matter you have before you, and how the most important things depend on your deliberation. Therefore I exhort you and ask you brotherly, by the eternal blessedness, which we will attain through the reconciliation of our Lord Jesus Christ after this mortal and miserable life, that you take care of what serves for union and peace, as it is due to such wise men, who are chosen with diligence. I, in turn, promise all the diligence, effort, zeal and care on the part of the pope that can be expected from him for the sake of church harmony, without detriment to godliness (or religion). Therefore, make every effort to administer the office and work entrusted to you in such a way, keeping God before your eyes, that everyone may know that you are aware of the communion of the holy Church and of the general peace and tranquility. May the God of wisdom and goodness govern your steps, so that you may unanimously praise with one mouth the common Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and may the peace of Christ, which is higher than all reason, keep your hearts and minds, amen.
1329: The Chancellor of Mainz, D. Jakob Reuter, response to Campegiu's speech.
See the previous number. In Oorp. Dsk., vol. ill, 1195. verdeutscht.
Most Reverend Sir! The highly respectable and most honored person of Her Sacred Imperial Majesty, the Holy Roman Emperor. Maj.
The electors and commissioners, as well as the worthy, strict, noble, distinguished and excellent councillors of the electors and other princes present here, have listened to your most reverend glory's skillful and emphatic, also godly and Christian speech, and with much pleasure, for the reason that they have been admonished to observe their duty well. They then promise again, and will show themselves in such a way, that one can see how they primarily sought God's honor, and then everything that can serve Christian peace and tranquility, and will not fail to recognize that they have done everything they were obliged to do.
133V. The answer to the papal envoy at the meeting in Worms in 1540, which Melanchthon drew up but did not recite because the presidents of the colloquium would not admit to reciting or reading it in public.
This writing is found in Pezel's oo "M. Nelaneü., p. 423; in Melanchthon's epict. according to Peucer's edition, lib. I, x. 173; in Röder, ckk eollo^u. IVormatisQsi, x. 83 and in the Oorx. Rsk, vol. ill, 1195.
Translated from Latin by M. Aug. Tittel.
The day is approaching in which the story of the birth of the Son of God, our Savior, will be celebrated; in which, as he comes into the light of this world, the angels will sing a hymn of praise, praising the benefits of the birth of Christ, which will reveal the glory of God, make peace on earth, and shower the people with eternal joy. The angels sing to him to remind us, and especially the rulers, of their duty. They join such a choir when they sing to the glory of God, that is, when they promote the true doctrine, give peace to the church, and keep good discipline and order among people, but not when they suppress the truth, commit cruelty against the churches and make everything desolate.
2 Such a companion of the heavenly hosts was Theodosius, Constantinus and other pious princes, since they spread the heavenly doctrine of true worship and abolished the cruel orders of godless princes and destroyed the churches. Therefore, even the most invincible Emperor Carl is to be praised for scheduling this meeting so that the truth might be revealed and peace established. We therefore thank
both to him and to his envoy, and humbly ask that he arrange things so that the truth will come to light and God's glory will be praised. In this way, harmony will also come about happily.
We have now heard the papal legate's speech, in which there was a mean admonition, but still a few jabs at us. And although we know that this kind of answer is annoying, we feel the need to apologize for it, so that we do not seem to have to put up with such accusations. Which we want to do with modesty and recently.
4. it is a great crime to run away (or fall away) from the church; even worse, to cause a riot in the church and bring false teachings to the people. So I want to say something of both.
(5) We are not so ignorant that we are not aware of the judgment of the authorities on these disputes, nor are we so devoid of common sense that we alone do not see our danger, or so iron-hearted that we do not take to heart our distress, which we suffer in many great ways. What could be more desirable to us than to be freed from all danger and hardship, especially now that we have endured so many years of misery, to finally enjoy peace? But this thing in which we are stuck, we cannot give up without the most horrible sin. That is why we have always asked for a proper judgment or interrogation, so that both the church would be helped and we would be freed from the danger.
(6) We also know that it is good to hear (or to hear with pleasure) talk of civil tranquility, of peace, to abhor sedition, and to rebuke obstinacy. We know that for these reasons many things are said against us that have an appearance. And bad minds are immediately frightened by such accusations. But we must see who is to blame.
7. we are not defectors or apostates from the church. We have not torn ourselves away from the congregation of the church. For those who keep and obey the true doctrine of the gospel remain members of Christ, even if they push the popes out of their fold. Jeremiah therefore did not fall away from the church, even if the priests pushed him out of their company. Christ proclaims that the pious will be cast out of the synagogues (houses of learning), and says: one should not let such violence make him despondent. This discord arose out of the punishment of the disgraceful
lich indulgence stuff. That's why the pope and his followers (or rotten) got together. One has flashed the ban beam. But should we be called away from the church because of such unjust orders?
8 I come to the other accusation. Then we are rightly expelled if our teaching departs from the Gospel or is contrary to it. So we constantly say that the very doctrine we profess agrees perfectly with that of the Catholic Church of Christ, according to the prophetic and apostolic writings, and the whole first and ancient Church, also ancient conciliar and pure (or wise) scribes. But this we cannot do, that we reject some superstitions and opinions which dispute with the Gospel, which crept into the Church a little before these times. And we do not allow ourselves to be deterred by those wise judgments which pretend that, just as in friendship one must overlook some of the faults of friends, so also in the church one must not take everything so exactly. Such teachings and sayings are good in their place, but do not apply everywhere. One must stick to Paul's rule: "If anyone preaches another gospel, let him be accursed." One must not approve of errors in doctrine and worship. But who is he who still loves only a little religion, whom the thing itself does not force to confess that much superstition has broken into the church? What a torture of pious souls the traditions or orally handed down (unwritten) teachings, as they are called, have been for so long! What noise has often arisen over them! What vanity and darkness is in the quarrelsome school theology! Were not sensible teachers long before such times longing for another kind of teaching? What sin is under the invocation of the dead! That the monasteries are in need of improvement, no one will deny. Do you not think that God is offended by the terrible abuse and desecration of the Lord's Supper, used entirely for profit?
9 But I will not tell everything. The prophecies concerning this age of the church are known, in which superstition and avarice would lead to a multitude of false services, and tyranny and ambition would gain the upper hand.
(10) Since it cannot be denied that there are many great pestilences and infirmities in the church, why are the authorities angry with those who, out of good zeal, desire better things and denounce many? God has given dominion to the mighty, but he also wants that his
He wants him to reign as well. And godly teachers cannot always avoid the hatred of the mighty. 1) However, they must see to it that they teach what is true, right and necessary for the church. God will be a witness that some of our people do this, and we have always shown that we will not shy away from any right judgment of the church, nor will we shy away from it. But it is wrong to raise only what can be said against us, and to cover up the other part's vices. And almost as in the fable the wolf complains that his water is clouded by the sheep drinking below, so the adversaries always go after us and forget their vices, since they know that we always ask for peace and quiet, both because of the common good and our own need. But since no proper interrogation has been carried out so far, many a good doctrine that is necessary for the church is suppressed, erroneous customs are confirmed, priests are killed and churches are devastated; they may also recognize this as something that needs to be corrected, and not always come after us.
(11) We do not want to defend our errors and infirmities, but gladly correct them ourselves in this discussion, if we have been reminded of them, and if we can be taught and convinced that we have erred somewhere as human beings. We, at least, have never wanted to deviate from the Church of Christ, although it is true that we do not approve of some unjust papal conclusions (laws). And since the Pope himself has shown himself to be an enemy of our churches, we cannot make him a judge, nor give his legates authority to govern this discussion, or to preside in other such conciliarities (or spiritual meetings), although otherwise we would gladly let everyone be present. And God wanted all righteous people everywhere to hear our declaration.
I have so far excused the teachers and churches and our way of teaching, which contains our confession. Of the princes and cities it is easy to answer. If they are blamed for cherishing priests and godly doctrine, what does that mean but to blame a duty of godliness, of which Christ will say one day in that day: "I have been hungry, and you" etc. What else should the authorities do? Murder and kill priests? Drive away their chaste and modest wives and little children? Alas! surely, since all severity and fury are to be abhorred, much more are those to be reproached who against priests, honorable and chaste women and little children.
1) otio parosre, I read ockio. (Walch.)
women and children. And we have never been interrogated properly. Therefore it is not to be blamed on our authorities that they do not want to be cruel to the priests. The regiments are to be especially praised in this respect, if they shelter and exempt the godly doctrine.
(13) This is what we recently wanted to say, to reject that which is blamed on us. We humbly ask all righteous people to make do with this excuse, which we would have preferred to omit if we had considered it unnecessary, and we ask once again to be mindful of right means against common discord. We also promise that we shall not lack the will and good proposals to promote harmony.
1331 The oath of notaries and their substitutes.
The documents from No. 1331 to 1335 can be found in Röder, äs eolloou. V7orwat., p. 85 ff. This number is found in the Oorx. Lei, vol. ill, 1200.
The Notary's Oath.
The notaries shall swear that they shall faithfully write down, record and register all and every act, which is brought forward orally or in writing in open presidency in the matter of this Christian conversation, and what is thus written down, recorded and registered by them, shall not do thereof or thereto, nor disclose such act to anyone or give out any copy or other appearance, They shall also keep their books and records, so that no stranger who has not been ordered to attend this meeting may come upon them, but as soon as the substitutes have made the copies, they shall take them together with the acts back into their hands and hand over the copies to the places to which they belong and keep the originals. And when such discussion is completed, the reported acts and what has been done in these matters shall be collated with each other, and each shall subscribe to the other's acts, so that such acts and actions may be performed by them, if necessity so requires and Imperial Majesty so requires. Maj. would require of them, and as would be due to them, may be executed; but that each part's notaries retain an original, for the benefit of the same parts and things.
The Substitute Oath.
The substitutes shall swear that they will faithfully write out all acts of this conversation, as ordered to them by the notaries, together with
They shall hand over the acts to their notaries, keep the acts and copies faithfully as long as they have them in their hands, and not let them come into anyone else's hands or be seen by anyone else, but as soon as they use such acts according to the notaries' order, they shall immediately send them again together with the copies to the notaries and not hand them over to anyone else; they shall also keep secret with them what they learn in these matters and not disclose them to anyone either in writing or orally, except to their superiors; everything faithfully and safely.
1332: The Augsburg Confession and its religious relatives' notaries ordered for the Christian conversation;
See No. 1331 in the Oorxi. Lei, vol. ill, 1202.
Kaspar Kreuzinger, Doctor.
Wolfgang Musculus.
Substitutes.
Joachim Goler, secretary at Costnitz.
Martinus Webel, Hamburg Secretarius.
With reservation and condition, if someone of the notaries and substitutes mentioned is demanded by their lords and superiors, or is so burdened with weakness and marital problems that he could not wait for this action, that in his place another may be appointed and ordered who is more suitable for this purpose. Also, that the substitutes, while they are like other envoys with orders from here, would not be tricked or endangered when they have to report to their lords and superiors from time to time, as much as is necessary.
1333 Response of the Protestants concerning the oath of the notaries and their substitutes. Around Dec. 9, 1540.
See No. 1331 in the pre-p. Lek., vol. ill, 1202.
Venerable, noble, benevolent, honorable, worthy, highly learned, gracious and favorable gentlemen!
Your Grace and favorable notice of the previous day, concerning some minor and yet necessary changes and additions in the delivered notation and form of the notaries and substitutes' oaths, the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of the Augsburg Confession and of the same religious relatives have been informed by the deputies of the Augsburg Council of the Augsburg Confession and of the Augsburg Confession of the Augsburg Confession of the Augsburg Confession of the Augsburg Confession of the Augsburg Confession of the Augsburg Confession.
The same is true for the other parts of the discussion, which have been reported to the committee, and do not know how to behave on this in your honor and good opinion: Firstly, as much as the change of the following words: "excluding those belonging to this conversation", that this has been considered only because of a clearer and more pure understanding of the same point, namely that no one would be understood by the notaries to disclose this transaction, also to send copies of the act, outside those belonging to the conversation. For this reason, it was considered clearer and more precise to set the same limitation words afterwards. However, so that Your Grace and favor would not consider it as if one wanted to seek delay in unnecessary matters, as such is not the will and opinion of this part, but rather that they are highly inclined to promote the main matters of the Christian conversation above: so one is also satisfied that such words remain as they were first set by Your Grace and favor. But that nevertheless no other understanding is given to them than as reported above, and so that those who are ordered to the conversation may be given a notarial report of the above action by the notaries and copies of the same may be sent to them at their request. On the other hand, concerning the annex to the oath reported in the resolution of this part, that each part's notaries may keep an original, for the benefit of the same part and things, the councilors, ambassadors and envoys have heard, reported above, that by your grace and in your favor, also the imperial orator, the things have been moved to that point. Orator, things have been moved to such an extent that the Emperor's Majesty is to be granted all such acts and documents. Majesty all such acts and deeds and that Her Majesty's relation to them be due. Therefore such an appendix, as considered good by this part, could not take place. For each party, if it needs the originals, must seek them from the Emperor. Majesty and obtain it there. The Councillors and Envoys then give the following report and answer: that the two Notaries are entitled to this part and are to be their Notaries or Exceptores, as such was granted to them at Hagenau and by the Imperial Majesty. Majesty's gracious granting. That now for the report of the trade to be presented at the future Imperial Diet to the Imperial Majesty and all the Estates of the Holy Roman Empire. Majesty and all the estates of the empire for the sake of such Christian discussion and action. Majesty with one or two originals: the Councillors and Ambassadors, as reported above, mean this to be good and proper. For they would have liked nothing better than that His Imperial Majesty should have this important matter. Majesty of this important trade of religion.
I would like to have a thorough and accurate report, in the sincere and undoubted hope that Her Imperial Majesty will find things much different than they are perhaps reported by some of the repugnants of this Christian religion. Majesty will find things much different than they are perhaps reported by some repugnants of this Christian religion. That is why they have been asked many times for an interrogation of these Christian matters, and have not yet seen anything better than that this Christian conversation, the content of which is the most gracious will of the Emperor. Majesty's most gracious permission and attribution, be carried out in the most beneficial way. But that for this reason all originals should be given to this act, and not to keep one for each part at least for his need with their appointed notaries, such would be considered almost burdensome for their consideration. For since four Notaries are to be appointed, the Emperor's Majesty could choose from two originals. Majesty could obtain a sufficient report from two originals of the entire transaction; besides that, as many credible copies as one would like to have could be made, and, if necessary, more notaries could be set down, so that each party would have at least one original to use in case of need. And since this is customary and usual even in minor matters, Your Grace and favor the councilors, envoys and ambassadors will not blame them for making this appendix for the sake of their most gracious and gracious lords and superiors' necessity, as they again deem necessary. For things might happen in such a way that it would be the highest necessity of this part to have such originals at hand and to use them. Thus, one has to remember what happened halfway through the action in Augsburg, where some private records wanted to be held pro authenticis, which was nevertheless much different in reason. Therefore, one does not know how to forgive this part of the originals of such forthcoming actions and conversations. For since by God's grace the matters here come to an amicable Christian settlement, it would have its. Measure. But if not, and the matters remain pending in one or more articles, it will be necessary for each party to keep the originals, so that they may be seen and learned from at any time of need, and that they may be kept in safekeeping by each party for eternal remembrance. Thus, it is also undoubtedly known to Your Grace and favor that this part of Hagenau has requested and asked for the notaries to be replaced and decreed, which was considered at that time due to the above-mentioned and other causes, and which was also subsequently submitted by the same part to the Imperial Majesty. Majesty's most gracious permission.
and tender, has been granted and permitted to them. And since the two notaries, belonging to this part, have been appointed and decreed by them, and since our most gracious and gracious lords and superiors are very much interested in this trade, and since this matter of the disputed religion affects their honor and happiness, body, goods, and the salvation and bliss of their souls, we, the councilors and envoys, once again ask that Your Grace and favor let it remain at this necessary addition, and that they be relieved of the original documents. Gn. and favor let it remain with such their necessary addition, and favorably spare them this complaint that they are to be deprived of the originals. Thirdly, concerning the oath of the substitutes, the Councillors and Envoys note that their Grace and Grace have misgivings about the appendix, that the two Secretaries at Costnitz and Hamburg, as appointed substitutes, would like to report to their Lords and Superiors, with the indication that such would not be due to them as substitutes, even if it were considered that the same would not be due to them among the Estates appointed for the discussion. Now that the Emperor's Majesty Majesty our most gracious and gracious Lords, the Electors of Saxony etc. and the Landgraves of Hesse 2c, together with their religious relatives, were described in this Christian amicable conference, and then Costnitz and Hamburg were required and ordered by their 1) churonic and princely graces, in addition to several others, to serve as a committee, and their secretaries were appointed, who were indicated as substitutes by the councillors and envoys: It would be advisable not only for them, the secretaries, but also for the councillors and envoys, since this should be the understanding, to go there and to grant that the same report of this trade, as much as necessary, should be brought and kept. Since these estates all stand as one man in the matter of religion, they have also been requested by the Emperor's Majesty. Therefore, they are also best appointed as substitutes for the conversation of the councilors and envoys. For this reason, it is once again requested that Your Grace and favor let it remain with such an appendix, which was therefore set in the oath. Since, however, for the sake of the said two Secretaries, there should ever be any misgivings that cannot be considered, the Councillors and Envoys of this part must put it there and appoint other substitutes, so that the said two Secretaries, if they act as substitutes, may be able to talk to each other.
1) "their" put by us instead of: "them".
The people who use the same methods would not forgive and entrap those who would otherwise be free and at liberty to do so. For although they have been delivered here by their lords and superiors, even though they are not included among the estates and persons designated for discussion, the councillors and envoys appointed for discussion, since this matter concerns the Christian religion and all estates related to it, which all estates, as has often been reported, have reserved for them by the Emperor's Majesty, are to be treated as a matter of public policy. Maj. have reserved to them the right to report the matter to the same, as well as to other fellow envoys, with due reminder not to publicize the same otherwise, as it has been heard before against Your Grace and in your favor. For their opinion is not to make this transaction public at this time, but only not to withhold a necessary report from those who are involved in the matter; which they could not do with any justification, except in a matter that concerns them all. For although some princes, princes and estates have their councillors and envoys in place here, the same are ordered like a committee of their own and all other relatives, partly involved in the protestation, partly not involved, and yet related to the Christian confession and religion, to which 2) they also know nothing to do or behave to their disadvantage. Thus it might well happen that those who are appointed to talk would have to act with the advice and concern of the other fellow delegates. We therefore ask once again that Your Grace and Grace's and in their favor want to "consider favorably and kindly" both points, namely the originals, and that the other religious relatives are not obstructed in their report, and therefore, for the other reasons mentioned, direct and promote things to fairness according to their request, considering that reported councilors and envoys of this part (without speaking of glory) have arrived here with the first one, and have been here until six weeks ago, 3) and through their manifold requests, reminders and suggestions, may not yet come to the beginning of the above Christian discussion, regardless of the fact that they have previously conceded and tolerated much inequality, of which they are justified in complaining, so that it may ever be noted that in their most gracious, gracious lords and superiors, also to them, the councilors, ambassadors and envoys of this part, there is no lack, also once again in all that which is proper for them to do, not willingly anything.
2) Jm Oorp. Ret.: "denn" instead of: "denen".
3) This is our approximate time, since the colloquium was scheduled for October 28.
wanted to have them killed. And would not have wanted to behave in such a way to Your Grace and in favor of the official and good opinion on the report that has been made.
1334 Response of the Presidents concerning the oath of notaries and their substitutes.
See No. 1331. in 6orx. Lek., vol. ill, 1219.
Answer from the Imperial Commissars and Orators Commissarien and Orator, the protesting committees from the same verbal and written
Display given.
To the first. As far as the oath form of the Notaries is concerned, the Imperial Commissioner and Orator, also the Presidents, again leave it at that. As far as the form of oath of the notaries is concerned, the Imperial Commissary and Orator, as well as the Presidents, would again remain with the same, as it was initially understood and delivered to both parties in the same copy, and with the understanding that the words of the same form would bring. On the other hand, concerning the originals, it would have been a matter of concern to the emperor and the presidents. Commissarii and the presidents concern again that the notaries of both parts therefore actually write down, record and register all actions, also collate their protocolla and books against each other. etc. that the Emperor's Majesty is to be granted certain powers at the future Imperial Diet. Maj. at the future Imperial Diet certain, correct and constant relations shall be made, and also that Her Imperial Majesty shall be provided with such original documents upon request. Majesty, upon request, such originals may be delivered, as the form of the notary's oath would bring. In this respect, the Presidents of the Imperial Majesty know not to prescribe any measure. Majesty neither to prescribe nor to give any measure. But nevertheless, the estates, ordered for this discussion, are meanwhile provided with copies of all and every act, and then the originals are deposited with the notary public until Imperial Majesty's request. Majesty's request shall be kept with the notaries. They and the other party would also be at liberty to apply to the Imperial Majesty for such originals. Majesty for such originals, and the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, did not doubt at all that Her Imperial Majesty would rely on such a request. Majesty will graciously and duly respond to such request. Thirdly, the substitutes for the Imperial Commissarius and the Presidents are again a matter of concern: since the Hagenau Agreement gives a certain measure in the appointment of the members and number of them, and since eleven members have been appointed to the other part, and since the appointment of the number of members and persons is to be kept equally, the Imperial Commissarius and the Presidents leave it at that. The imperial commissioner and the presidents shall leave it at that and their previous concern about the oath form of the substitutes.
1335 The Protestants requested explanation of the next presidential response.
16 Dec. 1540. 1)
See No. 1331. in 6orx. Ret., Vol. Ill, 1220.
Gracious and favorable gentlemen!
When E. G. and Gunsten the day before had the Mainz and Strasbourg deputies report to the Committee of Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors of the Augsburg Confession their and the Imperial Commissaries' final opinion on the points raised in the Notaries' and Substitutes' oaths these days, the Councillors and Envoys, together with the contents of the oaths, have been informed. The councillors and ambassadors have been informed of this, together with the contents of the written record, which was also sent to them by His Grace and Benefactor. As far as the originals are concerned, the councilors and envoys had hoped that at least one of them would have remained with their lords and superiors, or their notaries, without any misgivings, and that they would not have made any deductions from it against Your Grace and favor. For although this treaty and conversation is non-binding, and for this reason it is to be said that the original documents are not necessary for our most gracious lords and sovereigns, it does not follow from this, at the discretion of the councils and envoys, that this treaty and conversation is to be a preparation for the future Imperial Diet, whereupon Imperial Majesty, Electors of the Holy Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, and the Holy Roman Emperor. Majesty, Princes, Princes and Estates of the Empire, and to bring the matters of the disputed religion to due discussion by way of a Christian concilii, or otherwise Christian settlement. Therefore, it is necessary for our most gracious lords and superiors to have an actual report of what has been done here, which cannot be more certain and correct than the originals, which they should not refuse or withhold in these most important matters, as if they were unnecessary to them. The like, although the Imperial Majesty has graciously accepted this conversation. Majesty has graciously granted and permitted this conversation, and Her Imperial Majesty is concerned. Majesty, it also concerns no less our most gracious lords and sovereigns, who have a great deal of interest in this transaction, as can easily be judged in your favor and was previously indicated. Thus, in the opinion of the Councillors and Envoys, it was the intention of the Hagenau Departure that the Notaries not only for the sake of the Imperial Majesty's and the Supreme Highness's satisfaction, but also for the sake of the Imperial Majesty's and the Supreme Highness's satisfaction. Majesty and
1) From Ebner's account in Räder (8 32) it follows that this writing was handed over on December 16.
The Councilors, Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors of this part, who were at Hagenau, have requested or asked for the following: namely, that both parts of the Council and the Ambassadors of this part, who were at Hagenau, should be replaced by the same number of Notaries. For the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of this part, who were at the meeting in Hagenau, have requested or asked for the notaries to be replaced in the following manner: namely, that scribes and notaries be appointed from both parts in equal numbers for such Christian discussions, and that the action be most diligently recorded and edited in the acts, so that they may therefore be seen and recovered at any time. On which opinion and request of this part in the passed parting with these words the notaries were admitted: Namely, and at the request of the protesters, to add the word Apologia to the words: "of the Augsburg Confession", the same being admitted to the scribes and notaries in equal numbers, because the necessity of the matter requires it. From this it appears clear that no opinion, except as reported, the clerks and notaries were requested and admitted to the above Christian discussion. For this reason, it is doubtful that there should be any objection or refusal on the grounds of this article; as we still hope that this will not be refused by Your Lordship and in your favor. We also hereby ask and request the same again in an official and friendly manner, considering that this is in accordance with all rights and fairness. However, in the event that such a request is not received by Your Grace and favor, it is to be hoped that it will not be: so that Your Grace and favor may feel and note that, for the sake of the councilors and envoys, there appears to be no lack of everything that is useful and responsible for them to do, to carry out this Christian conversation in the most beneficial way, and that they, out of Your Grace's written request, will be able to do so. Gn. and in favor of the written and oral notification that has been made, that copies of all and every action are to be communicated to them by the Notaries: they must also have it done in such a way that [from the Imperial Majesty] the original copies are requested. Majesty, for the purpose of reporting the matters to Her [the King's] Majesty and the Princes, Princes and Estates at the future Imperial Diet, as well as to our most gracious Lords and Superiors, is necessary, in which case it is also unobjectionable, and that E. G. and in favor of such points, "to provide the deputies with all and especially credible copies at their request for the discussion of all and every action", also have them put in the notary's oath, so that no misunderstanding may arise in the future for this reason, and that the No.
The two secretaries at Costnitz and Hamburg, as the substitutes indicated, are obliged to send the copies to the deputies for discussion, as reported. As for the two Secretaries at Costnitz and Hamburg, as the specified substitutes, so that they are not further entangled than is due to their duty to their lords and superiors, the Councillors and Envoys appoint and specify two others, namely Craften Rauh and Johann Spitzenberger, with the reservation, as stated in the next reply, that 1) the Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors, their lords, superiors, co-envoys and ambassadors, are obliged to meet in person, They are requested to present the two notaries named together with the substitutes without delay, so that the oath may be taken by them, and the act of Christian conversation [of which they have long been eager and which they also suggested afterwards] 2) may proceed without longer delay in the name of the Almighty. And ask Your Grace and favor not to blame them in all this as the servants and commanders, and not to weigh them down against their having commanded.
1336. conversation held with Granvella about the oath of the notaries and their substitutes. December 13, 1540.
This document is found in Röder I. 0. p. 93 and in Oorx. Lei, vol. ill, 1207.
Translated from Latin by M. A. Tittel.
On Monday, December 13, we presented a Latin document to Mr. Granvella to request that of the four main documents (originals) that the four notaries wrote down, one would remain with each part, but two would be given to the Emperor. After that, that the Costnitz and Hamburg secretaries would be free to sign over what is going on here to their masters, by whom they were sent here, if they considered something necessary.
2. he answered to the first: because the parties were not held (or bound) to this conversation, it was also not necessary that the parties had the Acta (or history) in their hands.
1) In the Oorx. Lek. "they" instead of "themselves".
2) The bracketed words are Conjectur of the 6orp. Lek. instead of: "begiren gewesen und nach angeregt", which Walch has omitted.
would have. Afterwards, they would also be brought to light by us and printed, which would cause many annoyances. For the previous examples frightened (or joked) the other part, since much had been printed that would have been better left buried. There would also have been many books issued, which, if they had not gone out, it would all be better that we did not need to be here. Therefore, it would be better if such copies or writings were only with Her Imperial Majesty. Maj. If something good were concluded here, the Emperor could make it known; if not, it could not be published.
Finally, he suggested that our princes should put it to the Imperial Majesty's decision whether they should be informed or not. He has often objected to this, since we insisted that we could not admit such a thing without the "prior knowledge of the princes: So you want to interrupt the action? and even repeated these words from time to time for the sake of unnecessary causes: Wherever this gospel is preached, it will also be said of you throughout the world that you were the cause of the conversation not having taken place. When we answered again, he said: "There can be nothing else behind it than that you want to have it printed. When we denied this and said that it only happened so that we could answer those who would like to persuade us, as it happens, that this or that had not happened, he replied: "It is left to the Emperor that it is up to him to have the Acta or not. When he said that he wanted to present it to the presidents, he added: what they had done, they had done well, and what they would say, he couldn't depart from it, he was of their opinion. He often asked: we should not confuse the deal, nor give the other party cause to ask something, and then we would like to hear what we did not like and what would displease us. He had hardly received from them that they had refrained from some demands, namely that those should be excluded from this discussion who had not been at the protestation at the Imperial Diet in Augsburg when the Nuremberg Peace was established afterwards. Since they had strongly demanded it, he had acted as if he did not hear or understand. Meanwhile, they shouted and complained that he was harming them. Similarly, he would always be approached about restoring the church property, that he should first make it out; but he would let it pass.
4. with regard to the Costnitz and Hamburg Secretariats, he stated that no one who had
would not be present at the conversation, should be told about it. For all deputies to this conversation would no longer be regarded as servants of their masters, but as public persons. The notaries should also not give a copy to those who would be in the conversation, without the president and his permission to the notaries. Also, those who hold the conversation should not report anything about it to anyone else, not even to the co-religionists, without reporting anything about it only to their masters, not even to their peers. Otherwise it would be as if they themselves were in the conversation, since they would be excluded. When we said: that is why our princes had asked to have a main record of the acts, that one should take notaries from each part, he answered: the king at Hagenau, and the emperor, since he considered the Hagenau acts to be approved, had only understood the taking of notaries from each part to mean that the report would be made all the more honestly to the emperor. This is how the Emperor and the King understood it.
1337. the protesting theologians' request to the Lord of Granvella and the presidents, which the other councils and envoys request
has been laid. December 21, 1540.
The request of the theologians is found in Melanchthon's exist. (London edition), p. 229; likewise in another, German version in Spalatin's Annalen, p. 478. The whole document is found in Rüder, äe eolloqu.
tiknsl, p. 101, Latin and German. The author of the "Petition of the Theologians" is Melanchthon, as he himself says m No. 1350.
[The Protestant Councils' Desire.]
Noble, benevolent, honorable, strict, highly learned, gracious and favorable gentlemen!
The princes, estates and cities of the Augsburg Confession, and their councillors, envoys and ambassadors of the same religion, do not doubt that your graces and favors are favorably mindful of the manifold, official and friendly reminder and request for the promotion of the above Christian discussion, to be held by virtue and content of the Roman Emperor. Maj., our most gracious Lord, most gracious permission and invitation at the Hagenau parting, for which we have now waited almost two months, 1) and yet about such an appointment not at any beginning of the same.
1) In No. 1339 at the beginning it is said that this document was handed over on December 21.
may come. Although the three weeks have now elapsed since the councillors and ambassadors, as reported above, finally let themselves be heard for the sake of their command and the spirit of Christian conversation, and it has not yet been indicated to them whether the other part wants to have such a conversation or not, but so much has been noted that they are to have daily conversation and consultation, to the detriment and contrary to the reported farewell and the Imperial Majesty's permission, which gives the aforementioned councillors, ambassadors and ambassadors cause for all kinds of reflection. For this reason, the preachers and scholars of the Holy Scriptures, who have been dispatched to the above Christian discussion by our most gracious princes, lords and sovereigns, have issued an official and friendly reminder, with their, the councilors' and envoys', foreknowledge and will, to your graces and favors, and also to the Imperial Majesty's commissaries and orators. Majesty's Commissars and Orators in the best way, as Your Grace and favor will be heard hereafter. And because then Your Grace and favorable and friendly to consider that this delay to the Councillors and Envoys on account of their Lords and Superiors, especially so to the Hagenau Farewell and the Imperial Maj. If something contrary to this is to be done, it is not a little burdensome, and they do not know how to take it with their orders and mandates: therefore, it is their official and friendly request and request that Your Grace and favor will once again direct the matter so that the Christian conversation, content and by virtue of the Imperial Majesty's most gracious granting, can take place. Maj.'s most gracious permission and invitation, after such a protracted delay, may be brought to fruition; as they hope, then, that Your Grace and favor will be ordered to carry out and direct this above action in such a way, and not in any other way or measure.
To this end the Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors, as reported above, have offered and are still offering themselves, so that with God's help no debt of any extension may be imposed on them with justice. And have not wished to refrain from reporting this to Your Lordship and in favor of official and friendly good opinion, hereby requesting the same favorable and friendly answer.
[The Protestant theologian's enclosed request.]
Noble, honorable, well-respected, gracious and favorable gentlemen!
We may well consider what condition we have to tolerate and bear because of this disagreement in religion. But God is our witness,
that we desire and seek nothing more from the bottom of our hearts than that a Christian unity be established in the church, that we may also say with a clear conscience that the doctrine of our confession is actually the true united doctrine of the holy Catholic Christian church, which one is obliged to preserve. So only men know that we must bear no small amount of persecution, hatred and misery on account of this doctrine, and it is not to be considered that we would want to inflict such a burden on ourselves for so long solely out of presumption. Since we then hold the known doctrine with a clear conscience, and are sent here to explain the doctrine according to our understanding and ability, and to promote unity, we hereby ask most respectfully that Your Grace and favor will not be displeased with this search of ours in an ungracious and unkind manner. For we heard some days ago that this scheduled Christian discussion is being postponed because the opposing party wants to make articles to be held up afterwards, perhaps in the opinion that this should be a preparation for a settlement, so that we would be moved and driven to grant the articles in question. However, we consider this to be more of a dangerous speed than a way to unity. And it is inappropriate to the Hagenau agreement, as well as to all processes in church matters. For we are not sent here to accept doubtful and dangerous articles put forward by the opposite party, thereby causing great strife. It is also burdensome that someone should vote before both parties are heard against each other, because perhaps some on both sides could be of a different opinion after hearing the report.
We have rejected and recused ourselves from the concilium written out by the pope, primarily because it would have been burdensome, even unreasonable, for our opponents to want to be judges themselves. But however burdensome and disadvantageous it has always been for us, it would not have had such great danger as it has here, in case the opposing party wanted to burden us with such dangerous articles. For in the Concilio there would have been more learned and impartial people from foreign nations than there are here, who might also have belonged to us, and these most important matters would have been discussed more diligently. But, we hear that some say that these our quarrels do not need a disputation, so that they should only be verbal quarrels, otherwise it would be one opinion; but thereby both parts are not a little burdened. For if it is only a dispute of words, why is it necessary to be cruel to innocent people for the sake of doctrine alone? If it is
To do it for words alone is the same as if someone kills a man just because he speaks a different language. Furthermore, we would be quite wrong if we caused such a great division for the sake of mere words and not because of necessary matters. It is true that in all matters, when parties are heated up against each other, quarrels of words are also involved. But so far one can easily compare, and we want to have offered this, that in all articles, where the opinion in the reason is not disputed, we do not want to cause a quarrel. It is also not against us to use other words, although it is good to keep real and certain speech in the church. But it is not at all the opinion that these are only quarrels about words, but they are great, important things of right worship, in which God's glory and all Christians' blessedness are concerned. These things cannot be muffled like this, even though we would like to remain silent. For this reason, we ask most diligently that Your Grace and favor will not direct matters in such a way that we are burdened with articles from the opposite side, nor will we allow them to be voted on before the matters are heard against each other, but will be gracious and favorable about it and help to promote it, so that the scheduled discussion, by virtue of the Hagenau farewell, may reach its conclusion. Thus, as much as is in us, we also want to use all possible diligence, so that no deficiency shall be noted by us. For we may well say with truth that we would gladly promote the welfare, peace and unity of the holy church, even with the extension of our lives. But whether, on the other hand, our opponents also seek Christian unity, or prefer to preserve and defend the annoying, obvious, unchristian abuses: reasonable, pious Christians can easily recognize this. And even if one wanted to set up a dangerous comparison, it would still not stand. And if the opposing party wants to dispute these matters according to necessity, it would be cheaper to do so with us than with others. We also believe that Imperial Maj. Maj. our most gracious lord's most gracious and most serious opinion is that the salutary truth be declared in the very best way, and that the welfare and peace of the holy church be sought and promoted in the most faithful way. We therefore ask Your Grace and favor to accept this request of ours with grace and favor, and not to note it in any other way than in a completely Christian and heartfelt good opinion. 1) Because,
1) What follows in Walch's old edition from here on in this writing is found in Spalatin's An
If our opponents continue to take away our votes and cut them short, it is not known what pious, honest people will think of this day of discussion, who now have a diligent eye and attention on this day and on you, Mr. President, and who are completely committed to you, you will reform the church and bring it into a better state and make and give it peace. For our need will require and urge that we are overburdened with such responsibilities. We hope, however, that you will do your best in these matters so that the real truth will come to light, so that all churches and congregations will be united, unanimous and unanimous in praising and glorifying God. Therefore, we ask God to grant you His loving grace to carry out such, also to govern your hearts and counsels, also the will of all Christians. Finally, we also ask you to give us a favorable response.
2) The Electors, Princes and Estates of the Augsburg Confession related theologians and preachers, who are sent and appointed to this conference.
1338 Melanchthon's letter to the Lord of Granvella. Worms, Dec. 22, 1540.
This letter is found in Pezel's eonsil. LIslaneUttnrnis, x. 419; m Melanchthon's "pist. (Lond. ed.), lib. II, p. 227; in Röder I. e. p. 109 and in" 6orp. Rec, vol. ill, 1243.
Translated into German by M. Aug. Tittel.
1. hail! High-born and highly respectable Lord! Would to God that I had so much wit and ability or prestige to contribute something to the true harmony of the Church! My writings at least testify that I have left out some harder questions and have tried to soften some matters. I will
nalen, pp. 513 to 520 in a different relation. There, it is attached to Document No. 1344, to which it undoubtedly belongs, because it contains, in addition to the further execution of the response to the first "article" of the presidents in No. 1343, also the response of the Protestant councilors, envoys and ambassadors to their second and third articles. Therefore, we have transferred this piece to No. 1344, but have omitted the conclusion of the document that belongs here, and give it here according to Spalatin (Annalen, p. 487 f.).
2) This signature is missing in Spalatin, but it is found in Walch at the end of No. 1344 instead of "der Räthe" etc.
never depart from the unity of the Catholic Church of Christ. It also seems to be conducive to unity that we have often offered to let the bishops have their power. Our quarrel is not about power and sovereignty and wealth. We can well allow such regimental matters.
We punish only some errors of doctrine and customs. However, at Frankfurt, the Council has cultivated a way (or means) of harmony, so that learned, pious and modest people would be chosen from both parts.
I myself had suggested some of the other part to the most reverend Lord of Lunden, who, as I thought, could be drawn to this consultation; I consider this to be the only means of settling these disputes, which would then be lifted by a special fate and change. But here it is different. There are monks among whom, if some are learned, they should not be so harsh. But some even boast that they have orders not to concede anything to us. If it is only meant that all that is ours should be condemned and destroyed, we cannot agree with them when they condemn the true opinions that are so necessary to the church, if we are already threatened with the most extreme punishments. The common danger also goes to our hearts; we wish that the fatherland would have peace. I do not see what kind of human help we have, but I can see certain disadvantages. But those who are still godly in religion must not therefore approve of erroneous religious services and abandon the common, necessary and godly cause. After this, what is the use of setting up this meeting for the scholars to discuss the dispute, if they are only to confirm the condemnation? But because in this dispute some have too harsh orders, which in themselves are compatible 1) and harmless: so it is to be wished that one should again follow the Frankfurt way, of which I have said above. However, I believe that even here some disputes can be settled by gentle action, for if we put aside false conclusions and act honestly, most matters are easy and clear.
However, your excellence expects from me some mitigations of the articles. This is my opinion:
5. 1) If one will make new ambiguous articles, thereby the disputes will not be completely erased,
1) We have followed here the reading which Peucer in M6l..86l66t. 6PP. and Pezel I. 6. offer, namely trnetadil68, While the Oorx. ReL. Lutraotadilss has included.
If they are only hidden and entangled, there will only be more division, because each part will turn them according to its own sense, and others will interpret them differently.
6. 2) Furthermore, it is quite childish and indecent for wise people in the church to play with ambiguities. It is therefore safer to see here, when the matters have been dealt with by disputation, in which articles the truth is so clear that all reasonable people can notice that the dispute is really settled, even though some monks of wrong senses may shout and rave against it. The straight path is the safest in such matters, and most disputes can be easily discussed. There are about two of them that are somewhat difficult to explain, namely the article of justification and the article of the mass. The others are all clear. And I have omitted much hard matter in some of my writings, and all prudent persons can easily see that, speaking thus, I have aimed with my hand at this purpose, to mitigate some controversies, and to pick out only things that would be useful to the Church. In the article of justification itself, it is only said of us in general: that one who repents should believe that his sins are forgiven because of the Son of God, not because of his own worthiness. What is inconsistent here? And yet the monks, who are completely drowned in their opinions and crickets, the origin of which would be too extensive to deal with here, mainly castigate this article. I think, however, that a reasonable person can easily be brought on the right way and reassured in this article, which is neither to be thrown down nor to be darkened for the sake of the monks' mad antics.
It is known that for several centuries many pious people complained about the abuses of the Mass. And perhaps the many land plagues are consequences of the desecrated sacrament. And it is not doubtful that the masses need improvement. But the right custom of the old church with the mass is known. And our article is also quite mild. It punishes the dedication (or giving) of the mass (to the living and the dead), because they think that the mass earns others forgiveness of sins and other things. This has led to abuses. Therefore, it would be good to think about an improvement with seriousness. If, however, articles were to be written on all matters, it would be good for men from both sides to do so, who are learned and knowledgeable in such matters, as well as gentle and modest.
8. the way to peace is quite leisurely
and easy, because ours teach about the bishops' sovereignty and church government quite modestly; again, the bishops should also allow us godly teaching and improvement in some things. But why nothing cheap can be obtained from them is not hidden. The monks flock to the bishops and defend superstition for the sake of gain, even out of ignorance and obduracy. I read every day books that are newly published, which concede us so nothing that they approve of obvious abuses, which were punished many hundred years ago by all those with understanding, as the superstitions of the monks. What should one do with such of concord, since they are, according to the Psalm, like deaf vipers? But the prophecies announce to the church of the last times a hard struggle, which the rulers must alleviate not with suppression of the truth, but with glibness and understanding. Let the church be helped in such a way that a godly and useful doctrine remains.
I recognize my weakness, but I still leave it up to the judgment of all pious, learned and righteous people in my place. I am also well satisfied with milder ways. I do not like dissimulation, hypocrisy, keeping things secret, which often makes things more confused than clear. Therefore, when I am needed in public conversation or other counsel, I will say frankly, modestly and honestly how I mean it. And what I follow up, I will honestly admit without ambiguity. Although I can see the nature of those with whom I have to quarrel, I hope that at least some disputes can be settled in this action. The others must be postponed to another consultation. I have written this to Your Excellency honestly and in good faith, and ask that it be interpreted for the best. Dec. 22, 1540.
1339 The presidential council's answer to the recently submitted request to promote the matter, with attached explanation of the 22 half votes. December 26, 1540.
This and the two following documents are found in Rüder 1. o. x. 118; in 6orp. Rot., vol. ill, 1251.
The following opinion is on account of the kais. Commissary and Orator, also the Councils ordered to the Presidency, the Princes, Princes and Estates of the Protesting Councils and Ambassadors Committee on the day of St. Stephen, December 26,
orally, and handed over in writing on the day of St. John, December 27.
After they had requested several times in writing and orally, and especially in their last document handed over on the 21st of this month, 1) from the lords councillors appointed to the presidency, that they wanted to direct matters so that the Christian discussion, with the content and by virtue of the imperial majesty's most gracious permission and invitation, might be brought into the work etc., The Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, did not doubt that they, the protesting Councillors, would have to report from all the actions taken with them so far by the Imperial Commissary and Orator and the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, that so far there has been no lack of them, the Presidents, in these matters, but that they have promoted them with their best diligence, just as they still do not want to spare any diligence, effort or work in everything that may always be useful for the promotion of these matters. So they could well remember how the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, with the advice of the Imperial Commissary and Orator, at the request of both parties, had acted on the form and process of the discussion, and sought all means and ways that might be useful for friendship and unity, as all actions practiced so far would have entailed. And so that the matter may now be continued and they may understand more clearly how the proceedings of this discussion are to be held, the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, did not want to keep it from them, the Councillors of the protesting Estates, that right at the beginning of this matter the Imperial Commissary and Orator and the Presidents had their doubts, for the sake of the votes, of which they had been informed in the Hagenau Departure and the Imperial Proclamation, and that the Imperial Commissary and Orator also had their doubts, for the sake of the votes, of which they had been informed in the Hagenau Departure and the Imperial Proclamation. Commissarius and Orator have several times indicated to them, the Councillors, that their Imperial and Royal Majesties are of the opinion that this is the right thing to do. Majesties would be of the opinion that in this discussion the votes should be held in this way, namely: since, by virtue of the Hagenau bye-laws, there would be eleven estates on each part, and each estate's person alone should have one vote, and thus each part should have no more than eleven votes, that the votes of both parts should not be added together, and thus two and twenty votes counted, and of both parts one more should be made, but that each part should be counted with its votes and one more vote.
1) No.1337.
The Imperial and Royal Majesty should, as far as possible, at any time decide on a unanimous opinion on the proposed action and present it by word of mouth or in writing to the Imperial Commissario and Orator, as well as to the lords of the council, who have been appointed to the presidency. So that the Imperial and Royal Majesty's opinion may be sufficient. Majesty's opinion, so that also quarrels and all kinds of words, from which further developments may arise, are avoided, the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, together with the Imperial Commissario and Orator, have agreed on the following. Commissario and Orator, that it should be held with the votes in accordance with the Imperial and Royal Majesties' opinion, as reported above, in this above discussion. However, if it were to happen that the Estates under one or the other part would not all decide on the same opinion, then each should be allowed to submit its opinion in particular to the Imperial Commissario and Oratori, as well as to the Councillors appointed to the Presidency, and then the opinion of the other part should be sent to the other to take further action on it; but the other opinion of the other part should be preserved behind the President until the Imperial Council. Relation 1) behind the President and presented to the future Imperial Diet of the Imperial Majesty. Majesty and presented. In view of all this, and in order that a deal may be reached, the Councilors are ordered to the Presidency, in the name of the Imperial Commissioner and the President, to submit a proposal to the Imperial Council. Commissarii and Orator, also on their own behalf, to the councilors of the protesters, a friendly and amicable request that they not complain about acting in the way now indicated. And, if it so pleased them, as the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, together with the Imperial Commissario and Orator, have agreed, they will not complain. And if it should please them, as the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, together with the Imperial Commissario and Orator, would not otherwise provide for them, the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, would be obliged to hand over to them a document that pars catholicorum has placed on some articles of the handed-over Confession and Apologia, and to act on it as is proper.
1340. the protesting estates report and answer on the presidential declaration of the
Votes Halden. Dec. 27, 1540.
See No. 1339. Also in Spalatin's Annals, p. 464, in a slightly different redaction. Spalatin notes that this writing was delivered to Granvella and the presidents on the day of St. John the Apostle in Latin. Also in the Oorp. Ast, vol. Ill, 1254 Latin.
1) That is, up to the relation to be paid to the emperor.
Venerable, well-born, honorable and highly learned, gracious and favorable gentlemen!
First of all, concerning the delay, we leave it at Your Grace's apology; we hope that Your Grace and Grace have also noted that we have not given cause for the delay. And on the article in which a declaration is made that in the Hagenauian decree and the imperial decree there shall not be the opinion to make a majority by the decreed votes, but that on each part only one vote shall be presented, and if some, the lesser part, would not be of the same opinion with their part, that the same shall hand over their special objections to E. Gn. and F., who would report this to the Emperor. Majesty about it etc. This is our announcement on this article: It is not known to us that one does not have to conclude here, nor do we seek that a majority be made with the votes. However, we are not in a position to judge what is to be done by Imperial Majesty, our Allies. Majesty, our most gracious lord, was of the opinion as to how he wanted to be understood: the words are, however, that a Christian discussion is to be held of all articles etc., which we cannot understand otherwise than that both parties shall freely converse with each other, and that the estates or persons appointed for this purpose, if both parties are heard against each other, shall speak their opinion with due discipline and in a Christian manner, and that none of the estates appointed shall be excluded, so that his opinion would not be heard or brought before other estates; Now if this form, now proposed, were to be taken, that the several part of the elves should present a special opinion to theirs, and work that they all consent to it at the same time, then some must first give their votes, before the opposing part is heard. Since this is a disorder, we have issued the imperial decree and the decree in such a way. We have not understood the imperial decree and the agreement in this way. On the other hand, it is much more difficult if their voices are not heard in the discussion, if they are not of the same opinion as the other party on their side. For what is that but to exclude decreed princes and estates from the discussion? which, in our opinion, is not the opinion in the farewell and imperial proclamation, and may well be done by excluding the few persons who advise peace and settlement on both sides more than others. Thirdly, the other day His Grace and His Grace had it said that this number of persons for the discussion was not ordered to be increased, but rather to be reduced.
but that there is a certain number of people who should speak. If there should still be this interpretation, which we now have only after we have been here for two months, then there would only be two voices. To the fourth: Since it can happen, especially in matters of religion, that the lesser part has a better opinion, as is indicated in histories and laws, the lesser part's opinion should also be heard in the discussion. Fifthly, we consider that the letter and the agreement before this time have not been understood differently, since the notaries have spoken and said in clear words that the opinion of each one, ordered to be heard, should be diligently recorded by the notaries. Although we do not seek to make a plurality, nor do we wish that in these matters the plurality of votes be used, but rather the word of God, we nevertheless hold that this is the opinion of the notary and the notary that no prince or estate be excluded from the number of notaries appointed. And if anyone's opinion should not be heard, we cannot understand otherwise than that they should be considered excluded. Since this new declaration is not equal to the words of the letter of request and the letter of agreement, and brings with it this absurdity that decreed princes and estates should be excluded, we have misgivings, on account of this form, about our mandates. In the other article, this condition and measure is attached, that, where the reported statement would please us, so that only the opinion of the opposite part would be held against us, then these actions should be advanced. To this condition and measure our answer is now heard. In addition, this article also introduces a new form, namely that the opposing party has filed a writ that should be served on us. This is our answer to that. Although it would perhaps be easier for us to argue with writs, nevertheless, if this form is not in accordance with the Hagenau agreement, we do not know how to agree to it, because such a letter would be without end. Nor would it have been necessary for so many people to come together here, if one wanted to act in writing and bring the matter into such a long delay. For if the opposing party worked on some writing in so many weeks, how slowly will this work be promoted from now on! Further, if this alone is the opinion, that short articles are held up to us, by which the doctrine of our churches is condemned, or is supposed to be a palliation, which is not founded in the truth, but only for the sake of the truth.
If we are directed to the appearance, we can accept such articles all the less. This form is rather contrary to the Hagenau agreement, which allows that this should be a Christian discussion, that is, in which the truth is sought through friendly conversation, in which all members may speak their opinion with respectable discipline. If the doctrine that our churches profess is found to be wrong, it is better to reject it publicly than to leave people in error with painted colors. There are great things and Christian church necessary, of which we speak, which can not be closed with mere articles, but is yoth that the truth be sought. Therefore, it is to be desired that this discussion, according to the Hagenauian form, be carried out. And if, for the sake of brevity, a written declaration should be submitted from time to time, with the consent of both parties, for the advancement of the cause, we will not refuse it. But that E. G. and Gunsten call the antithesis catholicos, we have testified many times, that this doctrine, which our churches profess, is certainly the true unanimous opinion of the true catholic church of Christ, have also always offered ourselves for Christian interrogation. So in this discussion, too, we will find those who are to be considered Catholicos. Therefore, our need is not to conceal the complaint. We therefore ask once again that the discussion be conducted in accordance with the Hagenau agreement, which, since our lords and superiors cannot understand it otherwise than in clear words, they have not given us any other mandates and orders than in accordance with the agreement mentioned. Where a different form would be sought to our disadvantage, we protest that there has been no lack of sovereigns and princes, also estates and cities of the Augsburg Confession related to our most gracious lords and sovereigns, and to us, as envoys ordered to this meeting, to carry out, promote and hold the same.
The Electors, Princes, Estates and Cities related to the Augsburg Confession, Councils and Envoys.
1341 The protester's answer to the imperial orator Granvella, concerning the reduction of the votes. Dec. 28, 1540.
See No. 1339. in Oorp. Rsk., vol. ill, 1256.
Most Gracious Sir! E. G. yesterday's day happened notification and request that the plot in
the religious matters by a few persons in E. G. and other presence and presence. The councils and envoys of the princes, estates and cities of the Augsburg Confession have been informed that the religious matters are to be settled by a few persons in the presence of Your Grace and others, so that this day does not pass without an end and fruit, because the way of Hagenau's departure should not be preceded. And that in these matters, as has been noted, Your Grace is making so much effort to bring things to a fruitful and good end, they thank Your Grace for this, with the request to praise this to their most gracious, gracious lords and superiors. And even though they are inclined to show E. G. their official and friendly courtesy, they still do not know how to behave towards E. G., that from their lords and superiors, they would like the Christian conversation, contents of the Imperial Majesty's most gracious granting, to be continued. Majesty's most gracious permission to take the Hagenau leave, with orders and mandates, whereupon they also let themselves be heard many times and asked to bring such talk into effect, and ask once again that such may happen; for for their sake, whether God wills it, no cause whatsoever shall not be found nor noted why such should not happen. Since, however, this discussion, as passed at Hagenau, and the Imperial Majesty has graciously agreed to it, it is not necessary for the time being. Majesty has graciously granted, should not be allowed to proceed, they must let it happen. And since they have been ordered to let such a discussion take place, and no other, of which their lords and superiors have no knowledge, nor may they consider that such a change should occur here, they do not know how to dispense with their order, and leave it at the notification, 1) which they sent to the presidents yesterday in German and Latin, with the request that they may receive an answer to comply with it.
1342 Response of the Protestants in the same matter, issued to the Count of Manderscheid of Cologne and the Count Palatine's council. December 31, 1540.
This document is found in Latin in Röder I. o. x. 118 and in Oorp. Rsk., vol. ill, 1260.
Translated into German by M. A. Tittet.
Most honorable count, noble and firm gentlemen!
(1) We have heard what you have said again, that the conversation has been referred to another
1) This will mean the preceding Scripture. After that our time determination.
The reason why such a change was made was that concerns had arisen about the votes and because it was feared that in such a large group of twenty-two people, i.e. of twenty-two people, 2) competent people were to be taken to settle the disputes, but without detriment to the agreements (or conclusions) of previous meetings, especially the one at Hagenau; and the reasons were given why such a change was made, because there were doubts about the votes, and because it was to be feared that in such a large group, namely of twenty-two persons, the discussion would not be modest and smooth, and such a public dispute would only heat up the tempers, especially since most of the people would be much more adamant about what was said in such a public and large meeting. So that something could be done with benefit, and greater offence could be avoided, and Her Imperial Majesty could be properly informed of what disputes were still left to be dealt with at the next Imperial Diet, it was demanded anew that this narrower committee of the discussion be allowed to take its course. It was also pointed out how the most reverend and noble princes, the Archbishop of Cologne and the Count Palatine, had good intentions, in that they had ordered you to act and promote everything most diligently that could be helpful to godly harmony, to which end you also testified that you would gladly apply all the effort and diligence in your place. You have also indicated that it is the wish of Her Imperial Majesty, Our All-Gracious Majesty. Majesty, our most gracious Lord, and the highly respectable Imperial Commissary. Commissarius, meant well from the bottom of their hearts. By citing these causes, you have exhorted us to this closer conversation (or committee), and you have carried it out very well in your speech.
2. After your request had been presented to the envoys and delegates of the princes and estates who adhere to the Augsburg Confession, they gave the following answer: 1) First of all, they do not doubt that the most noble Electors, the Archbishop of Cologne and of the Palatinate, will be so well disposed against Christianity, and so well disposed against the Princes and Estates of the Augsburg Confession, that they will seek and desire that harmony and common peace be established among the churches through godly and salutary counsel. They have often demonstrated this intention, since peace has been achieved several times through their efforts and mediation. On the other hand, our princes and the estates united with them have always expressed special gratitude for this laudable benevolence and these good deeds: Thanks
2) I read st for iä. (Walch.) In the Oorp. Lei: (aä) iä.
praises and thanks them. We also hope that it will become clear from many actions that our princes and united estates desire peace from the bottom of their hearts, and have always wished that the unity of the churches would be established in a godly manner, which is why they did not express themselves in the public deliberations for the benefit of the churches.
Therefore, when the envoy of the imperial majesty, the archbishop of Lunden, was consulted at Frankfurt, and it was agreed to hold a discussion (or religious discussion) in which they would deal with the divine union of the churches, our princes and other estates wished that such a discussion would be held in such a way, and in such a hope they sent their councillors and divine scholars to the Hagenau Convention or Assembly. And it is not our fault that such a discussion did not take place. Incidentally, the royal majors and electors and princes who were present at that time made a farewell (or conclusion) of another kind, which the envoys and delegates of our princes and estates accepted to the extent that they said they wanted to report it to their masters and put it to their discretion. Since, however, His Imperial Majesty in Grace Majesty's grace to hold a discussion here, the envoys and deputies of our princes and united estates have again been sent here with measured orders that the discussion be begun in the manner prescribed in Imperial Majesty's letter of invitation and the farewell at Hagenau, as we have often requested. 1) And we have not prevented this. And we have not been an obstacle to this.
4 Whether or not we sincerely wish to please your request and that of the highly respectable Lord of Granvella, the Imperial Commissary, you can easily see that we cannot abandon our command and adopt another way. Commissarius, you can easily consider that we cannot deviate from our command, leave the Hagenau way and adopt another one, as we have already apologized to the highly respectable Imperial Commissarius for this. Commissarius for this reason. You see how important the matter is, and what a danger it is. It concerns the honor of God, the true worship of God and the salvation of souls. To deviate from the prescribed way in such a matter without a command is very dangerous. For our lords and sovereigns did not think that such a way would be changed, otherwise they would have given other orders.
1) formarQ xsrseriptain should be xrassoriptarll. (Walch.)
There is much more to it. For the change could not be made without being detrimental to the Hagenau and other previous decrees, one could also arrange it as one wished. There will hardly be two or three who, to the exclusion of the others who are present here, want to take over the whole burden of these matters to be dealt with from the common cause, especially without orders and since another way is prescribed, and where not all speeches would be distinguished. And these disputes need some examination. If now, in such close conversation or manner, only this is sought, that one only wants to forge articles at the top, and, as it were, play under a little hat and thus dampen the disputes, then one would have to especially consider what danger lies underneath. In the case of such a committee, the milder ones should not be taken, but perhaps the harsher and worse ones should be chosen. If this is also sought, that Her Imperial Majesty, our allies, may be granted the right to vote. Majesty, our most gracious Lord, the disputes are presented clearly and unambiguously, it is much more advisable and helpful that everything be examined in a lenient manner according to the Hagenau way, and that the reasons and opinions that are put forward be written down properly.
5 We therefore ask you not to take it amiss that in so great a matter, in so great a danger, we do not accept any other form of communication than that of Hagenau without orders, and to apologize diligently to the distinguished Lord of Granvella, Imperial Majesty's Commissaries, for causes now brought to light. Majesty's Commissarien, diligently for reasons now raised. His benevolence towards the Germans is well known, and so we will not fail to show him our debt and obedience in other things that we can do without neglecting our duty. We also ask that we receive an answer to the last letter to the venerable, noble, strict and firm men who are to preside over the discussion, so that we may once have some certainty. We will praise your kindness and love before our princes and lords, and we do not doubt that your zeal and goodwill towards them and the common good will be pleasant to them. We also thank you, we command you in the best way, and we offer ourselves for all services.
This answer was handed over to the Count of Manderscheid of Cologne and the Count Palatine's council on the last day of December 1540.
1343 The President's response to the writings recently given to them by the protesters. D en 2 Jan. 1541.
This and the following writing is found in Röder 1. e. x. 120 ff. Latin and German; only German in Spalatin's Annals, pp. 488 and 511, and in the Oorp. Lei. vol. IV, 5. The time determination is according to the following number.
After the Imperial Orator and the Presidents Orator and the presidents have so far considered several ways how the intended Christian discussion should be held; and the ways, so far proposed, have not wanted to be accepted unanimously by both parts: so that nothing would happen to their diligence, they have considered the matters further, and after many actions, which ran in between, could find no other way, which was to be hoped for, 1) than the following form. Firstly, that two Collocutores, one of the eleven Electors and Princes, the other of the protesting Electors, Princes and Estates and Ambassadors, be given, and that each of them orally present the opinion of the greater part of his part, and then these two Collocutores, in the presence of all Estates and persons, deputized and appointed to the Colloquio, shall talk and converse with each other amicably and amicably about it. After the Collocutorum have finished speaking, the other Collocutors shall be asked to add something to the opinion of their part, but not otherwise than with the permission of the Imperial Orator and the Councillors. The other part shall also be allowed to speak if they want to add something to the opinion of their part. Furthermore, the opinion of the minority shall be sent to the imperial orator and the presidents, and according to the orator's discretion either kept behind the orator and the president until the imperial majesty and the estates have reported, or handed over to the opposite party. However, this shall not oblige the minority to follow the opinion of the majority, unless the Imperial Majesty and the common Estates decide otherwise. Majesty and the common estates of the empire, as is due. Secondly, in such a discussion not all speeches, but only the final opinion and sententiae, in which one would remain at one or at odds, shall be written out by the notaries. Thirdly, however, this process shall be unbreakable in all ways to the Augsburg and Hagenau and other adopted decrees, and they shall remain with their dignities and powers. However, the
1) Thus Spalatin. In the old edition: "verhoffentlichsten".
Orator, by virtue of the authority vested in him by Imperial Majesty. Majesty, to further explain the Imperial Majesty's mind and opinion according to the opportunity of the matters in the course of the same.
1344. the protester's answer. January 5, 1541.
See the previous number. The time determination is according to Spalatin I. e. p. 511. The same is confirmed by No. 1346. Latin also in Oorp. Lek., vol. IV, 7.
Venerable, benevolent, noble, honorable, gracious and favorable gentlemen!
Your Grace and favor know that we have now let ourselves be heard many times that we desire most of all that the discussion be carried out in accordance with the Hagenau farewell and imperial decree. And we have often offered to do so, hoping that it will serve to explain the truth and thus to bring about Christian unity, of which we are most eager. However, on the next Sunday [Jan. 2, 1541], we received a reproach, in which the Hagenauan agreement mentioned above was once again withdrawn with new additions, which are somewhat more dangerous and more inconvenient for the investigation of the truth than the first reproach. Therefore, Your Grace and favor will hear our answer favorably. Regarding the first article, it was indicated that two persons should be appointed as Collocutores, each of whom should present and speak his part's opinion as to what the other part will be; and if one of the same more part should consider adding something, 2) it should be done so, if it would be permitted and allowed by the Imperial Commistarium and Your Grace and favor. To this is our answer: In order to note that we would like to promote a Christian conversation, we also allow two persons to be appointed as collocutores, so that there is all the less disorder. 3) However, we would have thought that you would have allowed each one to speak freely and without hindrance, especially in this assembly, as we have again done, and as we have recently stated,
2) Thus Spalatin. In the old edition of Walch: "darzuthun". Latin: aüükrs.
3) Here follows in Spalatin, Annalen, p. 513 ff, the section of No. 1337, which we have transferred here (see Col. 450). That, tvas follows here further in the old edition, is missing beb Spalatin at this point, but forms with him (Annalen, p. 487 f.) the conclusion of No. 1337.
not that we should count the votes, and that we should conclude according to the greatest number, 1) but only that each one of the twenty-two persons appointed to this conversation should be free to indicate his opinion, for reasons that the nature and character of a Christian and friendly conversation requires such. For God would have given the. In these Christian and faith matters, God is wont to open up to the latter and lesser, which he does to the greater and greater; as there are many examples of this in the ecclesiasticis historiis. Moreover, it has always been customary and usual in the church that, where there has been an assembly in matters of religion and faith, all those who are required to take part in this action may be heard freely before all others and may unashamedly state their opinion; as the acts and actions of the councils held at Ephesus, Chalcedon and other places clearly show. This is also, in our understanding, the opinion of the Hagenauian Departure, to which our most gracious, gracious Lords and Superiors have been called by Imperial Majesty. Maj. and described here, as Your Grace and favor have understood the same farewell also in the beginning of this action itself, and in the words of the lecture of Nov. 26th have expressly indicated to us, 2) namely, that the farewell is intended to be non-binding, and thus the number of persons and votes is determined solely by the fact that one is certain of the number of speakers, and not that one should make a number out of such votes and conclude on the matter etc. In addition, we hear that this understanding was also with many of the other part at Hagenau and is still here. Thus we also consider that this way, that all of the twenty-two voices are heard, is more respectable, more useful and more excellent than the way that is now proposed to us, for the reason that this conversation is not only to be reported to the Emperor. Maj. may be reported, but also for the purpose of taking the Augsburg Confession and Apologiam before hand, discussing all points and each in particular in a friendly, Christian and noncommittal manner, and using all possible diligence to bring all erroneous points to Christian agreement, comparison and right understanding, as the words of Hagenau's Apologiam are.
1) We have taken the preceding in this sentence from Spalatin in order to establish the context.
2) No. 1322, §2.
Ahschieds read. Now the comparison can follow much better, if each opinion, which speaks with Christian zeal and fear of God to the matter, is heard, than if one makes before a Mehrers, and the others, which do not agree, from the conversation excludes, and their opinion in writings urges to hand over. For this reason, we want to reassure ourselves completely, for the sake of Your Grace and for the benefit of those who have been appointed to the Presidency, that they should hear the discussion, due to the Hagenauian farewell, and that they will not only not hinder this way of free voices for the promotion of Christian settlement, but will promote it as diligently as possible, and if someone wants to act against this, they will not grant or allow him to do so, as we have asked for this several times before, and this time we want to ask for it again most diligently. If, however, it is not possible to obtain such a thing, which we do not wish to do for your good and benefit, we are urged to report it to our most gracious lords and superiors, as well as to their sovereigns and princes. We hereby expressly reserve the right to their electors, graces and benefactors to apply to the Imperial Majesty and the Estates of the Empire for the same. Maj. and the Estates of the Realm at the future Imperial Diet, and when and where else their necessity and opportunity requires, to complain and recover the same, also all other of their sovereign and princely lords, graces and favors. We hereby publicly attest and protest to this. And so, subject to this protest, we want to enter into this discussion, to give a Christian and friendly account of our doctrine and faith, so that no one may say with truth that we have fled the light, and have been shy to explain our doctrine and faith, and thus have no lack of everything that serves for Christian comparison by means of divine Scripture. And this inequality, together with other complaints and inequalities imposed before, which we know how to do, but which we refrain from doing in the best possible way, we place at the Lord's disposal this time, but with the following reservation: that the suffragia of ours be left free and not be denied to them by the presidents, but that their opinion be allowed to be presented, as we do not want to deny it to those of the other part, as much as is in us, but have now repeatedly requested and still request that it be allowed. That then further in E. The less part shall not be obliged to follow the opinion of the more part, unless the Imperial Majesty and the common estates decree otherwise. Majesty and the common estates of the realm (as is proper): we respect this appendix in Reli-
It is not necessary for us to consider the matters of the region as burdensome and unreasonable, in which it is proper to follow the clear word of God, the truth, and not the majority, and no one should be urged to an unjust opinion against his conscience, which is rightly instructed by God's word. Therefore, our necessity requires that this appendix be challenged and not conceded in any way. And as it is reported in the other article that the notaries are to record only the final opinions and sententias, in which one would remain at one or at odds, we also did not want to prolong the action without necessity; nevertheless, the necessity of both parties requires "declaration and argument", and thus to hear and write down the whole action "with diligence, so that after this discussion, in which the truth was sought for a Christian settlement, Imperial Majesty, Electors of the Holy Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor. Majesty, princes, princes and estates of the empire may be reported, and subsequently further considered, how by Christian means the matters may be brought to due remembrance. Now such a report cannot happen without a list of the declaration and arguments. And the mere concluding speeches on both sides, especially among those who do not thoroughly understand these controversial matters, would arouse much more displeasure and greater bickering. For many are fiercely bitter at such mere speeches, which is why they would now shy away from them even without sufficient report and declaration. Thus we could not report thoroughly to our lords and superiors of the plot, if we should not have copies of the whole plot. In addition, from the words of the oath of the notaries, it is found that it was previously the opinion of your Grace and favor that not the mere closing speeches, but the entire declaration should be written; for thus the words in the oath read: 1) "The notaries shall swear that they shall faithfully write down all and every act, which is brought forward in open presidencies; in matters of this Christian conversation, orally or in writing" etc. Thus, your Grace and favor have previously been heard and have promised that they will provide us with copies of all actions upon request, of which we are also aware, and cannot agree to this article in any other form than that which is now indicated. On the third article, that this process shall be unbreakable to the Augsburg, Hagenau and other agreements, etc., this we on our part do not understand and agree to other than from the agreements accepted and agreed to by both parties, and refer to our previous Protestationes etc. And we
1) No. 1331.
long as the Imperial Commissars' declaration. Commissioners' declaration, we also wish to reserve our necessity. And hereupon ask to promote the matters and not to delay them any longer.
2) The Electors, Princes, Estates, and Cities of the Augsburg Confession and the Councils, Envoys, and Ambassadors of the same religion.
1345. the Oralor's and the President's further answer and explanation to the recently handed over writ to the protesters, concerning the two Collocutores and other pieces more. January 12, 1541.
This and the following number is found in Röder I. e. p. 124. The time determination is according to the following number: "heut vor Essens". In the Oorp. Rek., vol. IV, 16 is the 11. Jan.
The Roman imperial majesty, our most gracious lord, commissary and orator, also the lords councilors, appointed to the presidency, have heard the answer of the protesting estates councilors and ambassadors to the recent remonstrance, which happened to both parts, and thereupon decided to remonstrate with the same councilors and ambassadors as follows: First, it is to be declared to the protesters that their opinion, if they so desire, shall not be denied if one of them wishes to say something about the affairs of his part in a uniform and proper manner. Secondly, that not only the final speeches, but also the arguments and reasons put forward by both parties shall be written out by the notaries. Thirdly, as far as the reservation of the protestations, which happens from time to time, is concerned, also the separations; item, whether the opinion of the greater part should be detrimental to the opinion of the lesser part or not, and then, whether this should be put to the Imperial Majesty and the Estates of this realm for recognition and discussion, it is considered good that there is no need for a longer disputation, but that each part, what they therefore want to put forward, should be presented to the Imperial Majesty and the Estates of the realm at a future Imperial Diet. Majesty and the Estates of the Empire, who will then give their resolution and decision.
2) This signature is missing in Spalatin.
1346 The protestors' further answer and request, handed over to the imperial orator and the presidents on January 12, 1541.
See No. 1345. in the 6orx. Rec., Vol. IV, 17 Latin, but in such brevity that it seems to be only a Summarium.
The Electors, Princes, Estates and Cities of the Augsburg Confession and the same religiously related Councils, Envoys and Ambassadors have heard the articles which the Imperial Majesty, our most gracious Lord Commissarius and Orator has decided upon today before Essen. Majesty, our most gracious Lord, Commissarius and Orator, together with Your Grace and favor, were heard today before Essen 1). And would have fully provided, your Grace and favor, in consideration of the well-founded good causes, in her, the Councils and Envoys, above-mentioned next handed over writings, also previously reported to several times, not to have refused that in this intended Christian conversation each person, who has been appointed to the twenty-two votes, by virtue of the Hagenauian farewell, imperial majesty's call, and your grace's and favor's self-declaration, should have been allowed to speak and present his opinion freely and without entanglement, so that one might the better come to a Christian settlement by means of divine grace; However, since in the present reply to the above-mentioned and previously several times diligently pleaded and asked for, no answer or notice was given to them, they must put it this way that no answer (as one is wont to say) is also an answer, and thus understand that this is rejected. But after the reported councilors and ambassadors let themselves be heard in their next answer, where the above-mentioned way of free votes is ever impossible to obtain, that they are nevertheless inclined to give an account of their faith and doctrine, and to engage in such Christian conversation, by virtue of the same their given answer, without hesitation; and Your Grace and favor allow them in the first article of today's remonstrance, according to their request, that their opinion, if they would desire to present such, should not be denied them: they will leave it at that. The like, because at the manifold requests of the councils and envoys, Your Grace and Favor 2) declare that not only the concluding speeches, but also the argu-
1) Hereafter our time determination for the previous number. In the Latin only: Noäie is written.
2) Here "dockt" is added in Latin. The "explanation" is the previous number.
menta and causes, should be brought forward by both parties, and thus the entire act should be written out by the notaries: so they also leave it at that, but that such act and act be delivered to them perfect copy and credible copy, and not be rejected; as such is promised to them beforehand by your graces and favors, and requires the necessity of our most gracious, gracious lords and superiors. And since the third article, included in your Grace and Favor's answer, does nothing for this discussion, but rather might arouse all kinds of disputation, the Councillors and Envoys, reported above, do not know how to grant the same, but leave it at that place with their most recent answer, 3) the 5th of January, reported above, handed over, as well as all other protestations made before. And accordingly ask to start the discussion as soon as possible, to which they have now offered themselves several times, and herewith, regardless of the fact that it has now been delayed for so long without their fault, want to have offered again.
1347: The speech of Peter Paul Vergerius, bishop of Capo d'Istria, to the envoys of the princes of Germany who had met at Worms, on the unity and peace of the Church. Jan. 1, 1541.
This writing is printed from a single edition published in Venice in 1542 by Röder j. o. x. 184. 184 We have been struck by the fact that neither Spalatin in his Annals, nor the more recent historians (as Köstlin, Kolde etc.) remember a personal presence of Vergerius in Worms. Spalatin (I. o. p. 455) only notes that "the Pabst's skilful, the Archbishop of Vetters sThomas Campegius), made a Latin speech in 1328^, in which he reminded both parts of peace and unity, and commemorated the Pabst with very few words". Melanchthon also mentions this in his letter to Luther of December 17, No. 1349, § 3. - See our note to ? 2 of the following speech of Vergerius.
Translated from the Latin by LI. Aug. Tittel.
Paul to Timothy: Suffer thyself to be a good fighter of JEsu Christ.
Egnatius.
You will of course be surprised and complain very much that for twenty years so much disaster has arisen in Christianity through some inner treachery that you often do not know what you should believe or reject. Which I can credit you with; for you remembered the old
3) No. 1344.
The state of the church, which has now been touched so many times by many persecutions, but has not yet been knocked to the ground to this day. Who, on the other hand, should not be surprised that Germany, which has flourished in power, team and people for more than a thousand years, and has always distinguished itself through bravery, godliness and harmony, then also brought the majesty of the empire to itself, and has risen so high through scholarship, has now changed so much in the church, has done so much wrong, and is now, as it were, completely on fire through disunity? But you have to thank God most highly that he mentioned the certain Vergerium, bishop in Justinopolis, who has been in mission for so many years, that he described the whole affair impartially in a short speech to the German princes' envoys, and in two books (or writings) to the most Christian king quite clearly and simply, without much verbosity, the title of which is: "Of peace and unity. And of the last two, "Of the Danger and Recovery Means of the Church." I know you will be satisfied with this. For he has not written out of a desire for fame or vain honor, but for God and His cause, from the heart, in His honor, so that you may not only judge at once where such evil and discord come from, but also see what should be avoided and accepted.
If the speech itself does not seem so eloquent and splendid to you, you must consider that in the discussion of divine things, great eloquence has never been required, because divine things are already beautiful and graceful stuff in themselves, if one only writes them clearly and deals with them seriously. And to my mind, this our (Vergerius) could not have spoken of it more skillfully and wisely in such a grave matter, and [it] is fitting at the time and occasion, when almost in all individual houses [there is talk] of a Landsynodo (or Concilio), 1) which would have done great harm to the church, to speak in this simple and common way very well.
Now I urge you, dear reader, to read with pleasure all this that Vergerius has written, because one can take from it quite a model and example of how and with what godly zeal this so glorious, important, but also dangerous cause of Christ and the church can be rightly achieved.
1) Inserted by us.
Of unity and peace of the Church
(to the envoys).
1 You truly cannot take upon yourselves anything more important, more conducive to true godliness, or more necessary at this time of great stress for Christianity, than what you have already taken upon yourselves for the church, that is, for the bride of Jesus Christ, who is in great storm and danger. If you now want to help her with all your might and earnestness, you are certainly doing something decent. For where this matter is not, there is certainly no other, since one must apply all zeal, diligence and care. Therefore, continue, and let yourselves take these things to heart. Meanwhile, as I see you engaged in high and important business, I want to bring to your mind what you must always have especially in mind, and which must be the purpose of all this effort of yours, namely, church peace and unity. For in such a great storm that God has imposed, since your and all the people's wit and reflection are hardly sufficient, I have also been ashamed to sleep and be idle. But this, what I now want to write, take it in hand and read it sometime, if you have any hour left for shortening time with such your work and toil. For I intend to write something little, but nevertheless Christian, and quite meanly and amicably, as I am wont to do in my dealings with you. And in this, I want to deal with you just as honestly and badly or straightforwardly as I usually do with you. For I do not seek with it my own
Praise, or where I am supposed to seek praise, I confess that I seek only the praise of godliness. And if someone who reads my things wants to call me a lover of peace and the unity of the churches, I will gladly accept and use such a name for the glory of God, who alone gave me this, so that I recognize and consider this to be the right praise. Assure also that I strive day and night for such praise alone, and have turned to you out of love for it.
For you all know that I have now been in public legation for five years, 1) and that I administered the same first in the name of Pabst Clement VII, then also in the name of Pabst Paul III. name. Therefore, as a man to whom this matter is very close to my heart, as a bishop who must necessarily know what is going on in the Church of God, and who was not far away, I had to come here with God at the time when you were holding this meeting, 2) since you, as learned and pious people from all over Germany, wanted to discuss Christ's cause in such a large number, and since I knew that some learned and godly men from Italy and Spain would also come here: Could there have been a better occasion in my whole life, when I could have learned and heard more for my benefit about such things, which belong to the defense of the peace of the church and to the attainment of eternal life and blessedness? But to the matter itself. For I hope you will already approve of the reason for my journey to you.
3. what was concluded and arranged last year at Frankfurt, and a few months ago at Hagenau among the princes and estates of the empire, and even with the consent of emperor Carl V., we know. We know that you will now take action here, that is, you will discuss the business of religion, in which many and great disputes have arisen; and that you will especially carefully consider all the articles contained in the Confession and Apology (or justification of the same) issued at Augsburg and diligently think of ways and means by which the harmony of the church can be established. For this is what both of you have learned from the day's etching (or meeting) of which I have just spoken.
1) Compare in the 16th volume of our edition No. 1218 and the following documents.
2) These words and in general this whole second paragraph seem to us not to be able to be interpreted differently than on a personal presence of Vergerius at Worms. That our assumption is correct, is shown by the Oorp. Rek., Bd. Ill, 1160 ff., because Col. 1161 we read: ketrus kan1u8 Vergerius, rnissus a Oallo.
The Emperor has ordered this meeting to be held in accordance with his wishes.
This is, of course, a great matter, about which nothing greater, more important, more necessary and more decent for your prudence can be at this time (as mentioned above). And all the pious hope that you will act in accordance with your virtue in this matter, and especially be honestly concerned that you promote the unity and peace of the church and the glory of God, and remain within the bounds of your command with the utmost fidelity and modesty, and in sum think of and do nothing else than that a means for peace and harmony be found, which you may state at the Imperial Diet soon to be held in Regensburg and present together with your entire action.
(5) Now here I have a few things to remember. You have, dear brethren, taken Christ's and the church's matter in hand: so you will first consider that you have Christ's body and the head itself, Christ, in your hand; so give the matter itself without my speaking, what modesty, purity, chastity, reverence and devotion are necessary to touch (or touch) him thus. I say nothing more: remember and consider diligently that you are now touching all the members and the head of Jesus Christ, the living Son of God, Creator of all things, who will one day hold the just and terrible judgment over your whole life and all your doings. Likewise, consider that man is a creature of God, and therefore cannot think or judge anything rightly about himself in regard to the Creator Himself and Jesus Christ, His Son and Heir, and that faith, through which we are justified and saved, is a gift of God the Creator Himself, eternal life, the inheritance which He promised to those who love Him, the church is a bride of Christ, and that you can therefore, with all your human wisdom and erudition, however great it may be, act rightly and conclude something good about our faith, inheritance and the bride of Christ, if the author of faith, the Lord of the inheritance and the bridegroom himself, is not with you. Therefore let all your hopes and thoughts be directed to Him who is the God of hope, and who alone can make both parties one. For if your mind and courage are set on anything else, and you have such things in mind in Christ's cause as flesh and blood would counsel, all will be in vain, and you will not help the salvation of souls or your own good by it. You know who said, "Without me, you will not be saved.
you can do nothing"; and: "Every planting that my Father has not planted will be uprooted. I say again, what you will never leave out of your thoughts, all your hope, counsel and thoughts must be directed to God, that you seek not human but heavenly things. Now that the foundation has been laid and fortified on the cornerstone, which is Christ, I will go on.
(6) There are some among you who often complain that much evil has crept into the church, and therefore you desire that it be abolished and that the church be restored to its former purity and rule. I see, then, that you already agree with us on the sound of the words, for you want evil or vice to be abolished and the church to be purified; but you do not agree on the meaning of the word "vice, error. For we call avarice, pride, cruelty, intemperance and other such disgraces and misdeeds in life errors (vices), likewise also all transgressions, injustice and corruption in doctrine and good order; which latter we also call by a closer word abuses, but I see that you also call not only this error (or something evil), but also various doctrines and orders, which we have now been using in the church for many hundred years. But I will first deal with these, and then also with these, but both recently.
(7) Of the former, all righteous people confess that much has been torn into some people's lives and customs. For this is how it is that human weakness has many infirmities, and always more than the other. And since the first beginning and foundation of the church, when it was governed by the most holy disciples of Christ himself, there has been almost no time when abuses have not manifested themselves. But one must strive to eradicate them when they grow again. No pious person denies them, no one defends them. And I know that quite recently some have been stopped, and the others are also to be gradually swept out or used less. And I say, by and by, because if we were to practice cruelty with fire and sword in order to get rid of the old plague in one day, we would only make everything bitter and perhaps inflict greater, more protracted 1) and more dangerous wounds. You should know, however, that those whom God, from whom all power comes, has placed on high, as it were on a perch, above men, cities and countries, kingdoms and empires.
1) In Walch's old edition: "more boring".
We, who do not rule and do not know much about matters of government, see much that is hidden from our eyes. In our time, in a famous state (or common being) of Italy, there lived a citizen who had been for himself and did not want to accept a sovereign office, even rebuking those who accepted such. I (he always said), if I had been mayor this year, I would not have done as our mayor did, I would have started differently, and acted and behaved differently with you. 2) In particular, I would not have been able to tolerate such a perverse life of many citizens, nor would I have been able to chastise them as slowly and sluggishly as he did, even if I had had to chase all citizens out of the city at once. Many of those whom he had attacked in such a way, since they understood trade very well and thought everything out wisely, urged him to take over the government. He did so. Behold, now that he had done it, he did it just as the others had done, whom he had rebuked before; in particular, he considered himself well in everything, and did not act too hotly if the citizens' manners were to be improved. When such things were reproached to him, he said: "I was sitting at home in a low, dark place before, because I could not see everything that you see from this high place, and what I see now that I have come to this high place.
(8) Now, if someone admits that in civil communities, where the corrupt life of the citizens is to be improved, it is necessary to act very prudently and wisely and to wait for some difficulties to be solved in time, he must necessarily also admit that in the Church of God it is also necessary to act in this way, because it must especially need goodness, kindness, patience, love, etc., so that we may win the souls of Christ without turmoil, noise and danger. Although I confess that we would have done much better if in one hour (for I do not want to say days) we had destroyed everything that hinders Christ's honor; and would God that we were so strong! But I ask you, for the sake of His name and blood, to take care of our weakness; let us abolish little by little what has crept in, which is contrary to the following and teaching of Christ; in short, as for putting an end to these errors and abuses, know that such things are not despised at all, for they are being dealt with, and I hope that they will be abolished. Do you not see what God is doing in our times for many and good minds?
2) In the old edition: "paired".
and people, and have recently sent some of them to the Roman church, but have sent others elsewhere, so that where some of them are bishops, they govern their districts themselves and edify them both with preaching and life, which everyone considers to be the proper and necessary office of bishops (and it is dealt with that each one should remain faithful to his profession and office); But where they are neither bishops nor pastors, but otherwise honest people and lovers of Christ, of whom there are now many, they travel now and then, and from their fire kindle the fire in other hearts?
9 Do not think that God does this in vain. For he is indeed a consuming fire, as Paul said, but believe firmly that from these coals great lights will be kindled in the church in time, which will dispel the darkness and night of the church. Therefore, in this discourse, you will focus on the most important thing, that you do not have to worry so much about abuses.
I now come to the other part, namely to the teachings and orders which seem to you to be wrong or unjust in the church of God. If I were to take the liberty in this intimate conversation (for that is what I call it, and not a speech, for I do not wish to be a speaker here) to speak my opinion to you as a man without a profession and to appear before you, then I could be rebuked in many ways. Therefore, I will keep my opinion secret this time. But listen to what I want to say. The confession and the apology (or justification of the same), of which I have spoken, contains the first article of the triune God and of the whole essence and nature of the same. About this we have no dispute. For the theologians of the Protestant princes have never touched anything 1) concerning the fundamental doctrines and the nature of the Godhead. But if one comes to the other article, namely, original sin, which carries with it some important articles that are included in it and belong to it; likewise, if one comes to other following articles, which it is not necessary to mention here: Keep this firmly and be well ordered that this time and place should not have any spectacles of quarreling over words or other crickets, since one wants to show one's astute mind, eloquence, great erudition, memory of many things, and the like. However, you have something important and great to do. Therefore, let your
1) Instead of attixistis, read attixsrunt. (Walch.)
In this way, all quarreling over words and vain boasting will be removed from this assembly. Then remember that some of the doctrines and points dealt with in this Augsburg Confession and Apology, and which you are about to discuss among yourselves, were already examined and worked out by many excellent people before these times, and see to it that the understanding and judgment of these old people are not disregarded. For there were learned and pious people even in those days, and they may have been better than we. And do not imagine that they were so far from the right path and without the grace of God, which enlightens pious hearts, especially at that time, when they acted without envy, dislike and enmity, not only for the people of that time, but for the whole posterity, the cause of the church and the souls. In the following times, one and another abuse and superstition may have crept in among the good teachings. I will gladly eradicate such things from the bottom up and have the place cleansed; But you will diligently observe the first statutes and all their power and godliness, that they at least had a good beginning, and thus to observe the pious people, our forefathers, who have now introduced such things for well over a thousand years (where they only introduced them and not rather from the hand of those who were before them, They have taught them and acted in the church and house of God, in which the Comforter, the present Spirit, has never been absent, unless one wants to make Christ, who was the highest truth, a liar. But if someone were to say that they were introduced without the word of God, this can hardly be said of men who have not only studied the gospel all their lives, but have also been very godly, innocent and holy. But I ask you: if Jesus Christ had not taught the same statutes (unwritten doctrines) in the Gospel at all, as little as the apostles (for you Protestant theologians tend to reject almost everything that Christ and his disciples did not clearly teach), whether you would then want them abolished in the church, whether they would agree with the divine Scriptures (namely, with their purpose) and serve to preserve love and godliness, and to strengthen good order and church government? I do not think that any of you will say that they are, nevertheless
2) Solis, not solus. (Walch.)
should be abolished. But if anyone should say that they do not agree with the Scriptures, that they cannot edify or preserve our godliness, or support the church government, I, in turn, would complain that you too rudely and proudly despise the judgment, learning, and holiness of those holy people whom they have bequeathed to us. I think a lot of our time, because many learned people have appeared in it. But we are far from being equal to our ancestors in innocence, honesty and zeal towards God, and are far from being as rooted in His love as they were; but God would that we were! As for these same teachings and statutes, let the reputation of those of whom I have now spoken, and then also so many years, yes, centuries of custom, from which it is not easy to depart, count for something with you. Then think also that now peace and unity of the church are spoken of, which is so necessary, not to preserve possessions and goods, but even life, liberty and honor, and, which is the most important thing, to make souls blessed, and that some things must be interpreted for the best and viewed from the side, which would be best suited to ward off hatred and strife, not only for the sake of the peace of your people, but also for the best and highest need of all Christendom. Here it would be necessary to give examples of it, and to explain the intended thing a little. For the doctrines and statutes which we have kept, but which some of you have abolished, are not of the same kind. For some are more holy or godly than the others; some do not serve so well for faith and godly living; some are newly arisen, but others are older and more established. Therefore I should now say which doctrines and statutes I now mean, and what interpretation I think should be made of them. That, I say, was appropriate. But I only said before: I do not want to get involved in such a trade, which is your work. I therefore pass over such, and meanwhile continue to speak of other things, until the desired day of a Concilii comes, when both I (though the least and as it were an untimely birth) and all men of other nations may freely speak their opinion of all articles.
(11) But taking all these things which I have said before you, see diligently that ye make not the wound of the church greater, nor rend it more in pieces. Away with all partiality, if there be any among you, and with all particular strife of your princes and your own! On the other hand, let conciliatory minds be,
The desire for the peace of God and the glory of our God, and a complete love among each other, so that one part may follow the other, so that from this the settlement may arise, which we may call unanimity or concord.
(12) Finally, remember that the church is Christ's bride, as it were, and that therefore the body of Christ, and all of us who are Christ's fellow heirs, are members one of another of this body, that is, of his flesh and of his bones, as Paul says, for which reason it must be one and the same body. Otherwise Christ, our head, would be greatly wronged if one part of him and the other body were torn off; but much more if such a part were to fall apart again into small pieces.
Now I must say a little about the Synod, for this is indisputably part of our business. Start from the times when the church flourished most, when the apostles of Jesus Christ taught the gospel in it in a completely new way, and go down through all the times, so that you put before your eyes and before your senses everything that happened in it: When you read that a controversy has arisen about faith and religion, you will also immediately read that meetings are being held, even in the same times of the apostles (which not only wise men, but also the Holy Spirit Himself, considered the best remedy, (Not only wise men but also the Holy Spirit Himself considered this to be the best means to quiet the disagreements and indignations of the churches, to dampen the hatred, to bring out the truth), and that the truth was thus often revealed and explained, the noise quieted, the hatred subdued, and everything was again brought to peace through spiritual meetings (synodos). For there the love and wisdom of God pours out more abundantly than elsewhere in the hearts of men. Since this is the case, why do we not unanimously strive for such a holy council to be assembled with the closest of all? This is the right place, where learned, pious and intelligent people, not from one region or another, but from all nations and kingdoms, discuss the matter of faith and religion, which is common to all peoples and nations born again in Christ through baptism and the Holy Spirit. For although your Germany is now especially full of discord and danger before all nations, yet it will greatly benefit the godliness of all Christendom, and strengthen the faith of Christ and the church, if a general synod or concilium is held, when once the state of affairs in Germany may be quieted, that it may not become worse, and that other nations may be affected by it.
tamed and kept from falling into the same divisions and danger. But we would never have such a benefit from a mere national concilio among you. For what unity or security of the church, or harmony among Christian nations, what friendly love and honor of Christ would result if you alone concluded something among yourselves about the matter of faith, which neither France, nor Italy, nor Spain would accept? For none of these nations will so easily accept something that has not been concluded in a general concilio and acted upon unanimously beforehand. Thus, with your German Concilio alone, you would remain separated from all other nations, with their great disgrace and contempt. But I also think that this would have been the Emperor's opinion, that after this discussion of yours, and after the Imperial Diet at Regensburg, such a general concilium would be held. For the wise prince has willed that in the meantime you should deal with the matter among yourselves, 1) and that your minds, which seemed somewhat divided and embittered because of the long dispute, would gradually be soothed and united, if you had discussed among yourselves the matter of Christ, who is our reconciliation and peace. And here I heartily exhort you, who I consider all of you brothers, to put away all old quarrels, where any still remain, and to put on the weapons of harmony, the weapons of peace, the weapons of love. You must do this if you want to promote either your own peace, welfare, security, praise and salvation, or the unity, peace, glory, and blessedness of the entire German nation, or the unity and peace of Christ and the Catholic Church.
But I come back to the Concilium. I have only said that without a doubt Carl V, Roman Emperor, was anxious for it, which is why he wanted to let this meeting of dialogues precede, so to speak, as a precursor of this Concilii. But when I mention the Emperor, I always mean Ferdinand, the Roman King, because he has all advice and suggestions in common with his brother, as a king of excellent piety, innocence and godliness. Now I add that Franciscus, the most Christian king in France, a gentleman who warmly desires and seeks to promote the peace of the churches, is waiting with great desire for the day when a general concilium will be held, all for your safety and good.
1) "ruäirstls, believe yourself], it should be SKitarstis, or another word.... (Walch.) -We assume: srusrstis.
(15) But there is one thing I would like to say: The Concilium itself we have always wanted, and still want, but only a fine Christian and free one, that is, with the points that you already know, who have once dealt with us about the whole matter. Answer: To this I say: Dear brethren, where ye are rightly devoured by the zeal of the house of God, I beseech and entreat you by such house of God, that ye will not first confound and endure this business of the Concilii with many points, for otherwise ye delay and hinder the very swiftest and best remedy against all your danger and mischief; but rather postpone all your demand and dispute, both concerning the judges in the Concilio, and how far the standing (or pronouncement) of other Concilii shall apply, until the time of the Concilii. For there the Holy Spirit will teach you what is to be done for Christ's honor and the safety of the Catholic Church, and unite your counsels and good will with ours, and ours with yours. Let only this be certain, however, that the Concilium is necessary for you, and that all who wish you and Christendom well will gladly keep it.
16 And beware lest one day we fall into suspicion, but have to say outright in German that you do not trust your cause and do not want to be judged by a general concilium, which we will certainly have to think and say one day when we see that you either want to have only a German concilium or argue about the points of a general one before you come to it.
Now, without a doubt, no one sees better than you yourselves how things stand with you, therefore it is unnecessary that I first prove and show your danger. For you yourselves are always complaining that many dangers are now hovering over you, since your brave and contentious nation is so divided and torn apart in the matter of religion. You are wise to be so afraid, for you are truly facing terrible plagues and dangers that are very great and near. For you have to be afraid of internal and civil wars, which, however grave and dangerous they may be, you have been able to judge, since such occurred among you a few years ago, arising from your discord in Christ's cause, especially at the time when the devil and all the fiends (Furies) rounded up from the villages and towns the innumerable mobs of peasants, who were snatching money and goods from your citizens, priests, princes. What should you expect from such people, who were not much different from wild cattle, for murder and jam?
If God had not shown the danger for a moment, as it were, and taken it away again, that He might, with His fatherly grace, draw you from the discord out of which such mischief arose to harmony, and so control the same fury and recklessness, the like of which danger one almost never experiences? For, alas, one has seen; one has indeed seen that everywhere in the country scorching and burning has taken place, that no age, rank or sovereignty has been spared, that all have been raged against in the same kind of fury, that neither ecclesiastical nor secular persons have been spared, that only the nobility has been attacked, and that everything has been set on sword and violence.
(18) After this, you must also be afraid of foreign wars, for they will see, yes, they already see, how your quarrels and disputes increase, and they will attack you at the time when they will see that such disagreement is strongest, or they will wait for the opportunity when your homeland has been most destroyed and overthrown by internal wars, then they will fall upon you with the greatest fury and their usual cruelty and violence. God, in mercy, prevent it and avert all the worries!
19 Such danger concerns your goods, fatherland, freedom, life, wife and child. But there is a much greater danger, that of souls. For you must remember that out of your discords and quarrels come men who want to tear away from the church the true food and drink and nourishment of our souls, over which we have nothing more lovely, more theatrical and more divine, that is, who publicly deny that in the Lord's Supper is the true body and blood of Christ. This opinion, as you know, has spread in some of the largest cities of Germany, and has infected not only one or another city, but the very most and firmest cities and countries in Switzerland, which are called cantons (or districts). And God grant that it may be true what I heard from you the other day, that some learned men, who for a time had been of this erroneous opinion, have left it, and now hold it with us, and in such cities and countries have now begun to teach another. Afterwards, it must be remembered that out of this very discord came forth the godless swarm of raging people called Anabaptists, who are all strange names and monsters, who dared to deny in a cursed and abominable way that God took human nature from Mary. O shame and abomination of our times! So
If we tear apart the church, that is, the pillar and foundation of truth, and do not immediately close the crack and plug it up again, we will finally fall little by little. I shudder to think how many thousands of souls, which Christ washed away with his blood, Satan stole on the occasion of these two unfortunate sects. And we must not hope that such a great freedom or impudence of ungodly teachings will be inhibited and taken away in the future. For new monsters will always swarm forth, we will always see new weapons 1) and new blood, always new loss and damage to many innumerable souls, if your discord is not quenched, and we do not establish a quite firm, well-founded and stable church, which teaches a 2) united faith (for one thing is indeed necessary, which the truth itself has said, so that no one else can or may teach or think otherwise). For the tremendous strange doctrines, of which I have spoken, have arisen nowhere else than from the divided and torn church, and from the impudent freedom to teach, which every evil-doer has taken in such confusion and wild state of the times.
20 I have reluctantly and with melancholy thought of both the sacramentalists and the shameful madness of the Anabaptists. But I have thought it good to point out to you the highly important reasons for which you should think day and night about promoting the necessary harmony, that is, the salvation and welfare of your souls and bodies. I have said that this would best be restored by a general concilium. This, methinks, is also the opinion of all Christendom, which requires the same; all countries and nations, all princes and kings are so minded; yea, the Holy Spirit Himself wants it and sees it good. Therefore, you must think of such a concilium, always have such a concilium in mind, and make yourselves ready and prepared for such a concilium. But whatever we think, speak, begin, and do, in whatever matter it may be, but especially in this one, we must do it all for the glory of God.
(21) In particular, let us be diligent to reconcile him and have him on our side. But the sacrifices are known by which God is reconciled and becomes gracious to us, namely, when we
1) He aims at the Cadmean brothers who came forth armed from the earth. (Walch.)
2) unarn stands. However, it must be understood üäss or äoetrina. (Walch.)
We can take off the old man and put on the new one, if we put off the life we led before, which was not without guilt or unholiness, and adorn ourselves with innocence. If we do this, the Lord our God will be with us, and from Him, as the living and eternal source of all good, the fullness will flow down upon us, namely, instead of quarrels and enmity, reconciliation and love, instead of danger, safety, instead of unrest, peace and tranquility, instead of toil, hardship and war, pure quiet and welfare, instead of eternal destruction, which one should have feared, eternal salvation and life. Worms, January 1, 1541.
1348 Melanchthon's letter to Joachim Camerarius about the actions at Worms. December 25, 1540.
This and the following letter are found in Melanchthon's "xist. (according to the London edition), 11b. IV, p. 771 and lib. I, v. 91, also in Röder 1. e. p. 49 and 51 and in the 6orp. Lei. vol. ill, 1247.
Translated into German.
To the famous and esteemed Mr. Joachim Camerarius of Bamberg, public teacher of the high school at Tübingen, his most honored friend.
Hail! God, the Father of our Savior Jesus Christ, Creator of all things, grant to His Church, to the worldly regiments or states which receive the true Church, to the good arts, to you and to your whole family a happy, peaceful and salutary New Year! I accept the good premonition of which you write. I hope that it will mean the end of the distasteful and annoying actions that have been carried out here. Nowhere can anything more ludicrous and childish be set in motion than this. After, as you know, three princes' envoys, the Palatine, the Margrave and the one from Jülich, arrived here, they rejected Ecken's way or regulation, and modestly gave to understand that they put up with our opinion. L. Gellius 1) wanted to become mad, and considered it something shameful and insulting that in his presence some nevertheless left the pope's side and joined us. That is why he sent the old envoy of the Palatine 2) and the secretary of state
1) This refers to Granvella.
2) Spalatin, Annalen, p. 462: "den frommen, alten ehrlichen von Fleckenfiein sammt dem pfälzischen Kanzler".
(or chancellor) to come to them and asked them to let theirs sign the Eckian way (of disputation). But they have steadfastly refused to do so. I have heard that an attempt was also made on the old prince himself. After that, another rank was devised. Because they saw that Alesius 3) was disputatious, they ordered new and individual disputations with the others, so that he would not, as before, take the place of the others. For they hope that if they were to argue individually in this way, they would be more despondent, and some who did not understand the corner's tricks would be more easily overcome.
Here I have now, since ours were not so ready, written on behalf of our preachers to L. Gellium and the judges (or presidents) that the adversaries should rather dare one with us. The Palatine theologian had already been heard in the presence of those from the Sorbonne, and had won the praise of godliness, steadfastness and scholarship. 4) But after our letter was delivered, these individual fights had their end. Alesius was ready and eager to fight (or dispute), and the hour was already set. But L. Gellius ordered that the dispute with the others from the Mark and from Jülich should remain. I send here the copy of the letter, and hope you will be satisfied with its freedom and emphasis. Afterwards, new consultations have been held, which we will hear today. For I wrote this first letter early at the beginning of the new year, which seemed to me to become more blissful if I had a conversation with you, as it were. The messenger requested the letter in the morning, since we did not yet have the story of that day. I hear that the Dutch procrastinator is studying something great. But God will guide this. Farewell. Christmas Day in the year 1541. 5) Phil. Melanchthon.
1349 Melanchthon's Letter to Luther from the Worms Meeting. December 17, 1540.
See the previous letter. The time determination is set by us according to Burkhardt, p. 366. In 6orp. Lei, vol. ill, 1227.
Translated from Latin by M. Aug. Tittel.
3) See below the letter fNo. 1350^: Continuation of Wormsian History. (Walch.)
4) Compare Spalatin 1. e. p. 463.
5) That is, Dec. 25, 1540; Christmas Day was used to begin the new year.
To the highly famous and dear man, Mr. Martin Luther, Doctor of Theology, the restorer of the pure doctrine of the Gospel, his exceedingly dear father, wishes P^hilipp] Melanchthon's
1. salvation! May God, the Father of our Savior Jesus Christ, who became a sacrifice for us, grant you and your family a peaceful and happy year for His Church and the World Regiment, which are the hostels of the true Church. All these public disputations have not yet begun; they are the fault of the adversaries, who have arranged secret meetings among themselves, so that they either learn the minds of their own, or first take away their votes, or forge articles, which they then present to us, so that the disputes may be moderated. When they had held council about these articles for almost a whole month, with Scotus quarreling with the monk Pelargus and Mensinger (for they are the champions), Eck finally drew up a formula (or precept) of the two articles of justification and original sin, and boasted that no better formula (or draft) for concord could be brought even from India; and such (formula) he presented to his own, and had them give their votes or opinions, which he sought to force.
God has guided and strengthened the hearts of others so that they do not agree to such fraudulent and false articles. Ecken's formula (or essay, draft etc.) has been rejected by three princes' envoys, the Palatine, [the] Margrave and the von JÜlich. They have confessed modestly, but still outright, that they considered our opinion to be good, which is in the (Augsburg) Confession and the Apology. The others are quite mad about it, and go about excluding such envoys of the three princes. Since they do not dare to do so, it is decided that Eck should hand over his opinion to the presidents in writing; likewise, that the other three should hand over their opinion, which they have expressed, in writing. This was done yesterday, Dec. 15, 1). So the three princes' envoys are somewhat separated from their opponents, and I do not know whether they will continue to meet in their discussions. We must fight for public disputes, so that the votes are not cast until the issues are settled. The adversaries are striving in both pieces through all the intrigues,
1) It should read "the 16th", which the 6oä. Ootd. also offers.
either to hinder the disputation or to entangle us in their opinions. But we will not accept articles from the opponents. They may freely dispute with us in public, hold opinions against each other, and then make the Son of God the judge. For of him the heavenly Father says: "Hear him!" Although they have kept their deceitful formulas (or essays) secret until now, I have seen them. They are children's games; with unlearned ambiguities they want to fool the simple-minded. I was also asked to write a formula. But I said: I wanted to express my opinion publicly. I realize that they also want to ask others what they think. We hoped that those from Cologne would also approve the true opinion of justification and reject Ecken's formula (faith essay). However, they have not only duped us, but also increase the danger of those three who have not agreed. The councilor of the Cologne Reformation or change of religion, Gropper, at first wanted to seem quite reasonable, and now he wants to unite the opposing opinions in such a way that one should think it had been only a dispute of words so far. But since I had refuted such antics quite freely, he said that he was surprised at my vehemence and heat, and that I should be left out of the disputation. I asked him to do that for me, so I wanted to give him a very nice gift for such kindness. gift for such kindness.
3 The papal legate made such a sorry speech, and in it he said that he had been appointed by the emperor. He said nothing about his authority in this synod (or discussion meeting). I wanted to answer him immediately, but Granvell prevented it. And when Franciscus said to him: I would answer humbly, he answered: I know well that he is modest when he feels like it.
When Scotus was discussing faith and doubt, the monk Pelargus said that it was right to doubt, because Paul also said (to the Corinthians): "I am aware of nothing, but in this I am not justified. Thus he wanted to help the doubt (or the uncertainty of salvation). The adversaries have chosen such riddlesmiths, so that they would have the appearance of wanting to create harmony.
They say that the emperor has returned to Brabant because of the French legation. But I do not care about such fairy tales, and let it be as it may. We hope that Corvinus is alive, although it is known that of the
Wolfenbüttler (Lupisacculo) tyrants are sent to intercept and kill him. But God is keeping watch for us. Be well. God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, keep you and your virtuous wife and the sweet little children and the whole house. Given at Worms, Dec. 17 [1530].
1350: Melanchthon's Continuation of the History of Worms to Luther. December 28, 1540.
See No. 1348. in 6orx. Lei, vol. ill, 1257.
Germanized by M. Aug. Tittel.
1) Continuing the story one after the other in the manner of Polybius, I will tell you what happened in response to the next letter, which I gave to a citizen of Wittenberg as a letter carrier.
After the envoys of the Count Palatine, the Margrave and that of Jülich rejected the articles of Eck, Granvell sent for the envoys of the Palatinate, the old gentleman of Fleckenstein, a venerable, respectable, virtuous man, of old grist and corn, and the chancellor, and requested that they should order their theologians to sign the Eckian formula. They answered wisely and emphatically: they did not want to force anyone to follow others against his conscience. After that, a new discovery was devised to tear the above three from each other, because they did not all seem to be trained in the same way in the old sophist's art (or fraudulent way of conclusion). So that Scotus (Alesius) would not speak for the others, it was decided that all of them should be discussed individually, in the presence of the foreign Sorbonne theologians, so that they, frightened by the sight of them, would also become stupid.
I have written a letter 1) in the name of our preachers to Granvella and the other judges (or leaders), and in it I have asked that they should rather dispute with us about the matters in dispute. Since such a letter was delivered, the adversary's intentions have changed, however
1) No. 1337.
they had already heard the Palatine's preacher, who won the praise of both a steadfast and a learned man. Scotus wanted to bite in such a fight, but immediately after the first conversation with the Palatine [theologian] all disputation ceased, D. Caspar [Cruciger] copies our letter for you.
Now they finally appear as if they wanted to hold the disputation in public. We are then summoned to the town hall, where the judges say that it is not the opinion of the imperial command. The judges then say that it is not the opinion of the imperial command that a different division of votes should take place. They added that the opponents had drawn up articles that were to be handed over to us if we wanted to accept them. But we have completely rejected such a procedure. I have enclosed the copy of our reply to this letter, from which you will see what they proposed. For they proceeded to exclude the envoys of the Count Palatine, the Margrave and the envoy of Jülich by trickery. We had many high and important causes to reject the articles. For I had seen them before, and knew how childish, ambiguous and deceitful they were set.
5 A new consultation now follows. Granvell demands that a few people start a conversation with him. He says that he wants to take a few who can be guided and with whom something can be done; we have also refused.
Now we are waiting to see what answer they will give to our request, which you will read in these lines. Because we have not yet received an answer to these refusals of ours. It is indescribable how the adversaries always crawl together, and what pranks they bring on the track. Therefore, you will ask God to govern us.
7 Our people are still completely united at this time, praise God! There are some who let it be known that they would like to be at Granvellen's will, but they do not dare to separate themselves from the others or to contradict them.
Here you have the whole history of our actions up to the present day. Be well. Please, greet your virtuous wife. Given in Worms, on the day of the innocent children 1541. 2)
2) This is: December 28, 1540.
1351 Melanchthon's letter to Joachim Camerarius before the conversation had even begun. January 13, 1541.
See No. 1348. also in 6orx. Lok., Vol. IV, 19.
Translated into German by M. Aug. Tittel.
To the highly famous and esteemed Mr. Joachim Camerarius of Bamberg, his best friend.
As the Proteus, when he is finished with all fabrication and cunning, takes his first and natural shape again, so the adversaries, after playing all kinds of tricks here, finally come back to their first pretending and trading. They begin again to give hope to a conversation. Before, L. Gellius 1) insisted very much that the public discussion be left, and that a few be taken and selected from both sides, whom one would like to let act briefly to mitigate the disputes; and some of our party had quite a bit of desire for such a proposal, either because they were afraid, or because they thought to be at L. Gellius' will. Now I, too, certainly desire peace as much as anyone else, and have always thought that some things should be overlooked for the sake of peace and quiet. However, I have indicated what seems to be hidden under the proposal of a narrower committee in the discussion, namely, that one is trying to market made-up (or fraudulent) mitigations. I did not wish to help make such things myself, nor did I approve of them, even if the French and Spanish armies were already at the gates. Christ, as he was about to go to the cross and ascend, asked the heavenly Father: "Sanctify them, Father, in truth. Your word is truth." But what else would it be but to contradict such a prayer, if one wanted to play tricks and monkey around with the doctrine that is so necessary in the church? To some it even seemed as if I had spoken too vehemently. But after my opinion had been understood, no further thought was given to the discussion in the inner committee.
Finally, it was decided that we should let the above three, 2) and those who would otherwise not agree with most of the group, not speak out their opinion orally (but
1) Granvella.
2) This probably refers to the three envoys mentioned in No. 1348 "of the Palatine, the Margrave and the von Jülich".
in writing). One had to either say yes to it or walk away. We had gained a cause or opportunity to break off the whole deal here. That is why it was argued which would be more useful. I put forward reasons on both sides, or rather admonished that this point should be diligently considered. For I did not want to make the pronouncement, and you know that it is not in my office. The four-man fighter 3) advised in a very vehement speech to break off the conversation, and absent-mindedly very much lashed out at me. But most of them liked the more thoughtful opinion (or resolution). So it has been conceded that those who would be of a different mind than the majority, would put their opinion in writing. Now that the conversation is to begin, behold, how fickle are the minds! they themselves regret it, who nevertheless advised the above timid or more modest resolution. Since I believe, however, that we are still acting smoothly and yet bravely, I can await the rest of the battle all the more calmly, and will remain in tune with ours, and ask God to rule our hearts, actions and events! 4) January 13, 1541.
Philip Melanchthon.
1352 Imperial rescript to Granvella of Jan. 15, 1541, that the colloquium should be suspended until the announced Imperial Diet at Regensburg, because many difficulties had arisen, and then everything should be better handled and settled. Communicated to the Convention on 18 Im. 1541.
This document is found in Latin in Röder 1. c. x>. 153 and in the Oorx>. Rec., Vol. IV, 28; German in Spalatin's Annals, p. 521.
Emperor and King. Well-known etc.
We have received your last letter, from which we have understood, as from several other previous letters in which this has been sufficiently indicated to us, everything that has happened up to the day on which you recently wrote to us, that both of you and the presidential commissaries and commanders have not been able to further and bring about the conversation that has been started due to obstacles and difficulties that have arisen.
3) xxxxxxxxxxx, perhaps Alesius Scotus. (Walch.)
4) What follows in this letter is of a purely personal nature, therefore rightly omitted by Walch.
den. We are also certain that you have shown good diligence in this matter, and that God, for the sake of a better end, has decreed such a thing; and that God, according to His divine goodness, grace and mercy, will provide you and all parties and parts with the proper means and ways at the next Imperial Diet, so that Germany may again be brought to Christian unity, so that God may be served sacredly and peacefully. And in particular, we have taken good hope that with God's help, as you clearly write to us, all parts are most inclined and willing to peace and unity; which is now very pleasant to us, considering that we desire nothing higher and more fervently, and that for this reason we have left our kingdoms in Hispania, leaving all other things behind, and have taken upon ourselves such a great, difficult journey. But since the beginning of the conversation has so far been delayed, and, as you have indicated in your letter, there is still some difficulty, it seems most convenient to us that, after receipt of this letter, whether the conversation has begun or not, you and the noble Roman king, our brother, should leave Hispania. Roman King, our brother, Orator, and the commissioners and commanders mentioned, that you take care to make an honest, agreeable and amicable farewell, so that the next Imperial Diet may neither be prevented nor delayed, and that the parties arrive all the sooner and more promptly at Regensburg, where the Diet is scheduled, to which, with the grace of God, we ourselves have resolved to travel at the end of this month, and then to take the work in hand as soon as possible.
We also want to seriously admonish both parties and order them to appear at Regensburg, after all excuses have been made, and to consider and move how much they care about this unity, and that such unity can never be established so well and so easily as at this time. That they also want to consider our office, effort and work, directed to this end.
In addition, we want to remind them that each of them should in the meantime consider and, out of Christian love, consider the ways and means that serve to bring about a true public peace and peace for all. For as much as our office deserves and is entitled to, we constantly apply our diligence to it; we also want to show ourselves and keep ourselves in such a way that, with their help and assistance, a good end will result; so that all of Germany will see that our
We have therefore ordered and imposed the above things on your diligence, and all that you shall deem convenient and good, so that they may all prepare themselves for the future. Therefore, we hereby order and impose the above matters on your diligence; also all that you will consider and regard as convenient and good, so that they all get ready and come to the next Imperial Diet, as reported above; and that you come to the most conducive, as far as possible. And since we are sure that this will happen shortly, and we are already on our way, we will keep the other things mentioned in your letter for the same time, about which we will give you an answer by the next mail. Dearest, may God preserve you through His holy protection and protection. Written at Sersburg, on the fifteenth of January, Anno Domini 1541. Carolus.
Baur.
1353 The conversation edited by Melanchthon, which was held between him and D. Eck from the convent at Worms from January 14 to 18, 1541. Issued in 1542.
This writing has been published both in Latin and German in a single edition. The title of the Latin one is: Colloquium Wormatiense, in titulum 1540. auctoritate inuictissimi imperat. Caroli V. Augusti, ad dirimendas controuereias ecclesiasticas. Acta Ratisbonensia, adiungenda editioni proximae. De manifestis abusibus potestatis pontificiae. De ma. nifestis abusibus ecclesiasticis et emendatione. Re* sponsiones principum vtriusque partis de Ratisbo* nensi colloquio. Cum praei. Philippi Melancht, Witeb. 1542. quarto. Reprinted in Mellsucbtbonis opp., toru. IV, x. 644; in Röder, äs solloqu. VVormat., p. 124; Melanchthon's preface also in his ernst. (London edition), p. 74- The title of Melanchthon's German edition is: "Alle Handlungen, die Religion belangend, so zu Worms und Regenspurg auf gehaltenem Reichstag des 1541. Jahres zugetragen, nemlich, das Buch, welches Kayserliche Majest. zu Regenspurg lassen fürlegen, als einen Weg und Mittel zur Einigkeit in der Religion, samt den Gegenartikeln und Antworten, so darauf gegeben. The discussion at Worms in 1541. Concerns of the Reformation of the Churches, presented by Phil. Melanchthon. Wittemb. 1542." Quart. Reprinted in Hortleder, Von den Ursachen des deutschen" Krieges, tom. I, lid. I, cup. 36, p. 174. The conversation itself, with Melanchthon's preface omitted, is found in Eorx. Lei, vol. IV. 33-78 in Latin.
When I think of the Colloquium in Worms, the bitter pain and heartfelt sorrow I felt at the fatal departure of two men who were dear and dear to me from the bottom of my heart will be felt.
I immediately felt anew in my heart the feelings of those who had been my very good friends. That was D. Capito and Simon Grynäus, whose early departure, because they were as excellent, learned, virtuous and godly men a special adornment of the church of Christ, is not unjustly blamed and lamented. For, not to mention our uncolored friendship, which will one day be much more loving and unmoored between us, when we will be with each other at Christ's, the prophets' and apostles', Grynaeus did this: When he saw that being learned would be a special adornment to the Christian church, he made every effort to awaken in the hearts of the people a right desire and love for the liberal arts, sent out the best very old authors himself, and explained them; for he had such an ingenuity that he could grasp good arts and languages quite quickly. But this fame is even greater that he did not neglect the Christian doctrine, which is practiced in the pure churches, but always read the writings of the prophets and apostles with diligence in addition to the studio philosophico. Capito, however, taught and instructed the Christian church both with a lively voice and useful writings.
2. That I now speak only of our meeting in Worms: We were sent to talk to each other in a friendly and peaceful manner, but at the same time (as is right in the church of God), so that the disputes in the articles of religion could be resolved and the right truth could be discovered, and we hoped that we would have such leaders and judges with us who would not be dumb, but would put an end to the useless bickering and agree on the right opinions that would serve the good peace. But since the adversaries had no desire for public discussion and forged among themselves a number of clumsy and screwed-up articles to force them upon us, we met daily in vain and disserted quite sharply, but with fine sincerity, about each disputed article. I remember that each of us brought many Christian dicta on the track, which were brought by many in Commentarios. But that I put other 1) in its place, those had come up to the chip of the power of bishops and of the laws that were made in the church out of men's will and devotion; when now there was mentioned the apostolic Decreti, of which in Actis Cap. 15, we heard that both, D. An-
1) In the old edition: "other".
dreas Osiander and D. Capito, told some historical tragedies from the books of the Jews, which, because they give not little light to the apostolic decree, I have considered it good to introduce them here; I know that such historica are agreeable to understanding people, and this narrative holds in itself an example, so full of beautiful teachings, which undoubtedly took its origin from the great prophets of the Lord.
3. Therefore I considered both of Osiander and Capito only a strange gift and present, that they revealed the old to us ignorant way; For they said that the ancient Jews, when their regiment was still flourishing, if they took a neighboring pagan city with army strength, and otherwise took them as confederates, they did not impose the law of Moses or circumcision on the conquered, but only put these conditions into the covenant of peace, that they should abolish those who are not gods by nature, and honor and serve the one and true God, the Creator of all things, who revealed Himself in His Word (entrusted to the people of Israel). After that, because the Gentiles did not forbid fornication and let fornication go too far, this was attached to it, that they should forbid fornication seriously from now on. The other things mentioned in the apostolic decree were also added, that they should abstain from all things sacrificed to idols, from blood and from things strangled. As for the sacrifice to idols, the reason is easy to guess, for they did not want to allow the godly to go to the idolaters on feast days and watch their pageantry, so that they would not be strengthened in their ungodly sacrifice by their fellowship. The command of blood and suffocation is taken from the history of Noah. For the Jewish victorious rulers taught their neighbors this old way from Moses, so that they would have a reminder of the sharp commandment which God commanded Noah from the death stroke; because of this, the old rulers among the Jewish people also well understood that the Jewish ceremonies belonged to their regiment alone, and that no righteousness was to be sought therein. But the promise of blessedness also concerns the Gentiles, who would be pleasing and righteous before God if they recognized the true God, who promises a seed in which all peoples should be blessed, called upon him in faith, and in common life obeyed the laws that God planted in the hearts of all people. Therefore
the apostles, after exercising their appointed ministry, gave their pronouncement of the abolition of ceremonies, and wished to remove such burdens from both Jews and Gentiles.
After that it was necessary that the commandments against idols and fornication were added, as one can easily understand, who, because they had to be added, wanted to use the common formula of the old rulers of the same people, of whom the neighboring ones had less abhorrence. He who reflects on these things will understand that the example of the apostles does not rhyme at all with the conduct of the bishops, who afterwards imposed on the church ceremonies of their own devising, celibacy or illegitimate status, and the distinction of food, instead of special services. This history indicates that this piece in the decree and neighborhood must have been nothing new, nor unpleasant.
4 I was caused to relate this because I remembered Capito, whose memory should be recommended to the studios, so that they have reason to imitate such a man's manners, piety and diligence. Otherwise, there is really nothing special worth telling about such a meeting; for how the public disputations of these three days, 1) which were more Declamationes than Disputationes, were, can be seen by the favorable reader from this outgoing tract. Perhaps it is useful to have in public print of Eccii full and drunken way, to the end that good and brave people obviously see that these sophists bring neither sincerity, nor some desire for truth to such discussion. I have heard it said that Eccius has boasted very much that he could defend both parts very well; he thinks that one must flaunt one's ingenuity alone and seek its glory, his purpose is not to get behind the truth, nor does he care to advise as the afflicted church does. Finally, in this matter it is right to weep with hot tears for the misery of the human race, that because of original sin this excellent nature is so horribly burdened first by the fury of God's terrible wrath, then with such a cruel burden of innumerable miseries in this life, and finally in death itself. About which, after the image of God in us is so evil, now lives in darkness and perpetual rebelliousness against the law of God, such high
1) From 14 to 17 Jan. 1541.
and great evils can beat down these epicureans so finely. But I leave that to the Christian reader to think about, if he will hold the sermons on both parts against each other; but I do not believe that a pious man will be so long-suffering and even without gall, that he will be able to read without anger and indignation of the Eccii Alfanzerei and rash, fictitious and fraudulent speeches. He has only his amusement, to play with the little words criminis, culpae, peccati capitalis; he twists the testimonies, which he knows quite well that they are not against us.
Finally, he is a true disputator Socraticus, who always keeps his opinion to himself, and is unanimous and alone in that he always holds oppositum to the opposite. I want to confess purely how I mean it: he has often made me so gruff and impatient with his cunning grinding out, deceitful catches, and damaging catches, which detrimental little tricks are better suited to a phormio or pseudolus in a comedy than to a theologian who wants to be an interpreter of Christian doctrine. I am telling this so that the studios may realize how dangerous it is to get involved with such deceivers and talkers, so that they may equip themselves for such fights with the greatest diligence and apply themselves to the very best diligence, so that they speak such things that are truthful and edifying and useful to the Christian church; After that, in the whole oration, as in a sincere face, a fine chaste manner should shine forth, the whole form and manner of speech should be proper and simple, as the color is in the tabulae [panels, pictures] of Apelles; after that I strive with the highest diligence, as is known to many. But that Eccius had much else in mind in this meeting of ours is shown by his declamationes, which diligently intertwine several things and then add others that are publicly false and ungodly.
For in the last conclusion of his speech, when he had rattled together many clumsy things that were not worthy of an answer, he finally begins to assert with a bright voice the old opinion of his people, who want to have it that the true penitents should be in doubt whether they are truly reconciled with God, likewise the true worshippers should doubt whether they please God, whether God hears their prayer, and turns with his hair the saying of Solomon (Ecclesiastes 9:1): "No man knows love or hatred of any man before him. 9, 1.): "No man knows either the love or the hatred of anyone whom he has before him." But such teachers are worthy to be taught by
The people who ascribe such a pagan delusion to the saying of Solomon are hostile in their hearts. Thus, the Epicureans and Pyrrhonians say that it is uncertain whom God loves or is hostile. Is it so uncertain that God is not pleased with Nerone? It is a foolish thing to speak thus in the Church of God, in which the one who is aware of evil should be justly terrified of God's wrath, and if he repents righteously, he can be sure that he will be received and heard again by grace, for the sake of the Son of God. We have the voice of the Gospel, which is a certain promise of gracious forgiveness; about which God has made a great oath: "As surely as I live, says God, I do not want the death of the wicked. The command is there that we should believe the promise, and faith is so often required. All this is overthrown and annulled by the opinion of Eccii, who wants to have doubts.
7 What Solomon says and means is easy to understand if one only takes the saying correctly. He is talking about how people's actions in this life come to nothing in many ways, so that he can teach us that we should not become arrogant when fortune smiles on us, or fainthearted when things go badly for us, and that we should judge God's will not from such outcomes, but from other testimonies; It is a well-made prayer that is full of godliness, but Solomon is encountered just as he said, that he gives laws with his right hand, but some listeners take it with the left.
I am telling you this so that those who read the Ecclesiastes may be reminded to notice the error more easily, and at the same time weep for the great blindness of the church, in which such doubtful opinions have been defended and confirmed by our adversaries, who publicly revile the Son of God. All Christian hearts should also consider that they should not only curse such inconsistent error, but also look for a better way of teaching.
9 This study, although it is opposed by many, we owe it to God and His Church, and to ourselves. I know well that it is said in vain to those who think that religions are fairy tales and fables, and curse such disputes in the church as a powder of public discord. We see also in these last difficult times that this, cyclopean philosophia goes far and wide in clamor, and many people have pleasure in it.
(10) But just as in the time of the Maccabees the church was not destroyed, so we know that even now, although the Turk and the native enemies are raging atrociously, God will nevertheless leave and preserve a small group of the Christian church, to whom we bear the hope that they will take this well-meant admonition to promote and propagate the pure gospel. The dear little church was just small when the Son of God hung on the cross, and the accidental darkness in the bright, light day made heaven and earth dark; but nevertheless it was not ruined to the ground, but both the thief and the centurion recognized and confessed Christ. So also we, after the world has become 1) old, although the eternal God has poured out His wrath on the world because of idolatry and other sins, should nevertheless not cease to praise God and His Son Christ JEsu with our cries against those who have forgotten God. We are to be justly angry with the nose-wise Epicureans, who laugh at the name of God so scornfully; we are to fence and fight against the Turks, who curse the Son of God; we are to drive out the godless sacristan and monks, who serve idols, and do not give the Son of God his due honor, nor recognize that he is their mediator; in short, we do not want to suffer him to be called upon in faith. The conflict that the church is currently engaged in is great and varied, but it is written about this time [Dan. 12:1]: "At that time, the great prince Michael, who stands before the people, will make himself known"; to him we are to commit ourselves with Christian and heartfelt prayer, and from him we are to expect help and salvation at all times. This has often been my consolation, so that I have risen up and still rise up daily: What is of God cannot be destroyed,
11) I have no doubt that this teaching, which has reached our churches, has been revealed by God Himself; I am not such a man of iron that I alone should not be concerned about the general danger of the German country, which now needs the princes to be one among themselves against the external enemy, or the natives would do great harm to our churches, which could be governed much better in times of peace. 2) For discord hinders good discipline even among right-minded and understanding people.
1) "is" put by us instead of: "be".
2) Inserted by us to give meaning.
(12) But the fact that disagreement remains in the regiment is done by the adversaries, who are completely steel and ironproof, because they do not want to confess to any peace unless they have suppressed the truth. But that our doubts and opinions were modest, the public records of all our descendants will bear witness to that. We have so often pleaded for a right treaty and decision; I myself have so often supplicated in humility to the potentates that they wanted to advise the welfare of the church; but plane visus sum (as it says in the Greek verse) navis quassata procellis supplicare scopulis [I have completely appeared like a ship tossed about by storms, which addresses petitions to the cliffs^. Therefore, we should command our church to God, and wait for our ministry with a good conscience, and ask God to govern the hearts of the princes, who should take care on both sides that not only the people are taught rightly by God and His Son Jesus Christ, but also that the fatherland is protected against the barbarian enemy, who not only unleashes his fury against the common man, but even more cruelly against the princes themselves; But God will not allow that through such tyranny the church should perish, or that the fifth monarchy should begin. Fare well.
So Doctor Johannes Eccius started the conversation:
After having been ordered by the well-born Lord, Imperial Majesty Oratorem. Majesty Oratorem, in addition to the envoy of the Royal Majesty and the other presidents, I want to mention first of all one thing at the beginning, although I am the least among my brothers and gentlemen, since I have been chosen and ordered to this conversation on eleven Catholic princes' ropes.
The fact that it took so long to get to the eleventh month is partly due to the long bickering that has been going on, but it is also due in no small measure to the fact that the gentlemen of the opposite party have presented us with such a copy of the Augsburg Confession and its Apology, which would not have been in conformity with the Hagenau Recital, by virtue of which the Confession itself, as it has been handed over to the Imperial Majesty and the Estates of the Princes, should also have been exhibited to us in a fair manner. Maj. and the Estates of the Princes, should have been exhibited to us only and truly. Therefore, we have spent not a little time and effort in holding them against each other, that we would have had reason enough to postpone the Colloquium to another time; but because we have thus decided to
If we are of the opinion that nothing is more important to us than to reach a Christian agreement with those who have gone out from us, we would gladly tolerate anything greater, if only we could achieve unity in the church and serve the souls for salvation. For this reason, we want, after all, with a certain protestation, in the name of the churals and princes, to go before the presidents to the matter at hand.
For my own part, I promise that I will do this sincerely, kindly, and solely for the sake of truth and peace.
Since I might have missed a word that seems a bit too harsh and sharp, this is truly not my opinion that I would want to offend either my collocutor or anyone else present; I am always ready to give a kind and gentle interpretation, so that everyone may recognize that I seek more truth and love than to defend our opinion with harsh words. Let this be said at the outset; now let us proceed to the matter at hand.
Therefore, as far as the Confession is concerned, I do not ask anything about the preface; so also the first article, after the Arian sect has been expelled and destroyed, has been accepted by the whole Catholic Church, that it is no longer necessary to start a quarrel about it in the presence. Therefore, we go straight to the other article, unless it is a matter that the author is deficient in something in the first article.
To this the Lord Collocutor, Philippus Melanchthon, replied:
Go ahead, Doctor.
D. Johannes Eccius.
Therefore, in the other article, where the old and new Pelagians are condemned who deny original sin in children, just as Zwinglius also describes original sin as being solely a defect or deficiency of nature, it is right to consider original sin as certain.
However, there are two things that we ask to be explained a little more clearly, so that we may reach the desired agreement.
The first is in the explanation of original sin, which occurs in the Confession, not only by the deformity and inconformity of the same sin, but also by the grave real sins. The Apology, however, is not at all milder.
that it has also made it inordinately greater, so that it ascribes to those who have original sin not only an abominable blindness, disobedience, but also an enmity toward God, contempt for God, unbelief, along with other evils. Since, however, a distinction has always been made in the church and in the holy fathers between real and original sin, so that the little children would not be burdened with such vices, it can be seen that we have had enough of the old interpretation of the fathers, and through this interpretation, if it is explained correctly, we can come and reach agreement.
For this is not rejected even in the Apology, namely, that original sin is a lack of the original righteousness that should be in us. Therefore, I do not doubt that my Lord Collocutor can prosper with his own, if he is concerned about unity, with us in the same opinion, agreeable to us.
The other, however, which we desire, and which is somewhat more difficult, which is put forward in the Confession under the cover, but in the Apology it is clearly given, is this, that original sin is not only a true, damnable sin before baptism, but also the lust and desire which remains after baptism is truly sin per se et simpliciter, as also my Lord Collocutor, to assert this in the Apologia with many words, turns to all his power and ability; and this he also wrote in libro de anima; and Luther, who introduced this repugnance into the church, pretended that such desire and lust is not only materialiter, but also formaliter proprie sin. For this reason also Luther was not without cause scourged, as the Apologia uses the word, by the Catholics, on the side where he says for certain that there remains as much sin after baptism formaliter as materialiter.
But perhaps my gentlemen, standing and sitting around, would rather that I, putting aside this and that, so spoken and written by different persons, pursue the main thing.
Therefore I come to the most important part, and that is the knot of the whole matter. For if you do not want to give a more reasonable interpretation, we cannot easily become one in this matter, although I had not hoped for this. The cause that moves us Catholics may be this: Nothing new in the church is to be said for certain, which is contrary to the prophetic, evangelical and apostolic sayings, and rejected by the holy fathers.
But to pretend that sin remains in the child after baptism is contrary to everything that has now been told; for this reason it cannot be accepted by us. For the immeasurable benefit of holy baptism in the New Testament, communicated to us by our Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, that he might be a counselor in the midst of the council through the holy men of God, has been described above. For He speaks, among other things, through the prophet Micham: "He will subdue our iniquity and cast all our sin into the depths of the sea." If one wanted to pervert the opinion of the prophet with an interpretation, the Holy Spirit would not admit such a thing, who says through the prophet Ezekiel in the 36th chapter: "I will sprinkle clean water upon you, that you may be cleansed from all your uncleanness"; which saying the holy fathers understood of baptism. Blessed Jerome ad Oceamirn diligently considers that the prophet says: "from all your uncleanness"; for he who says of all wants none to pass over.
Furthermore, the words of Christ to Nicodemo testify to this: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God," since he means just that which is our business, that it is enough for the regeneration of the soul if it is born again through the bath of baptism; this could not happen if the sin, the lust, which comes from the first created Adam, should still remain.
St. Paul, too, in the first epistle to the Corinthians in chapter 6, addresses the baptized thus: "But you have been washed away, you have been sanctified, you have been justified"; which words are not at all suitable for such a person who has damnable or mortal sin in him, who has sin per se et proprie et simpliciter in him. Hieronymum we have heard; of Augustin! Opinion the Church is so certain that he does not put it in one place, but in many books expressly. In In enchiridio; in libro contra duas epistolas Pelagianorum; ad Valerium; de nuptiis and in several other places he teaches that the baptized has no sin at all, but he is not above all misfortune; and he does not at all like the opinion of those who pretend that baptism makes no other form pure from sins than a barber shaves off the hair of the beard, which grows again and again.
This I have recently and kindly wanted to talk to Mr. Collocutore, who, if he will give a better interpretation, more acceptable to us Catholics, it would be unnecessary, in the presence of
so great lords and excellent men to make more words; but if he wi^d have a fault in anything, and bring more things on the track, we are willing to take both from the divine Scriptures and from the holy fathers, if we can but take his opinion aright.
So far Doctor Eccius.
Phil. Melanchthon answered:
Upon permission received to speak from the well-born Lord, Imperial Maj. Maj. Commissario and Orator, and from the also well-born, noble and excellent men, the President, I will, as instructed, answer recently and with due modesty, and first of all, because it is a spiritual matter, I will begin with prayer.
The Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, since he wanted to become a sacrifice for us and now go to his death, asked the heavenly Father: "Father, sanctify them in the truth, your word is the truth. Since this prayer of the Son of God has certainly been heard, and he has presented us as bishops, for whose sake we are heard, we also pray with his own words for his sake, that he may sanctify us in his truth and so govern our Gentiles and tongues, that we may speak what is true, Christian and beneficial to his church. He will also guide the hearts of all of us to Christian and holy unity. And let God be our witness that we do not disagree with others out of any undue thirst or obstinacy, but because we fully believe that this doctrine, which we profess, has been practiced unanimously in the true Catholic Church of Christ, we also teach it in our churches with a clear conscience.
But so that I come to the oration of the highly learned Doctoris collocutoris: First, that he has objected to the delay because of excuse, and the cause and blame on the unequal Exemplaria shifted, I give to the answer that the res are the same, although some things in some places in the last edition either by something eased, or have been explained more clearly.
But that he thought that we had gone out from them, and thereby accused us as if we had left the true church: to this we must necessarily answer, although we recently want to do so in this place.
Because we love the consensum of the Catholic Church from the heart, and no more than
reprove some abuses of the opposite kind, as God's commandment urges us: "You shall not take the name of God in vain," and Paul says: "If any man preach any other gospel, let him be accursed," so that we have not departed from the catholic church of Christ, but have only abandoned the punished abuses, and have rather been expelled from its congregation by violent commands, banishment, and new bitterness, which before were not customary in the church. Therefore, the prophet Jeremiah did not completely depart from the people of God, even though he was condemned by those who had public authority in their fists; so it is also with us, and we leave the judgment to God and the right assembly of the Christian churches.
After that we have always offered ourselves to appear before an impartial spiritual court, and still offer ourselves. Therefore, it was unnecessary to condemn us beforehand in this friendly conversation, at the very beginning. We do not want to elaborate on this at this time, and refer to what we have said and written secretly and publicly in these matters several times before.
However, it is very dear to us that he claims that he wants to debate in a friendly manner. We can constantly say that we are not of the same opinion with them, without some bitterness, without some enmity, we also want to do with all our hearts what is useful for the common peace and tranquility, even if it is done with unfair, quite severe conditions, if we can do it without disgrace and harm to the Son of God. As for my person in particular, I ascribe to the Doctori collocutori the praise that is appropriate and due to a learned man.
Now to the articles themselves.
Of the first article there is no dispute, because everyone knows that our churches have faithfully defended the general consensus against Servetum and some others, and also want to have publicly testified in this place that we keep in our churches the main symbols, the apostolic, Nicene and Athanasian, and that we teach and believe about the one divine essence and three persons as taught in these main symbols, in the ancient synods, Nicaena, Constantinopoütuiiu, Ephesinu and ChalcedoQciisi, and in the most distinguished church scribes, Athana8io, Basilio, NaziaiEno, Epiphuiiio, Ambrosio, Augustiiio. We keep
also like the way of speaking approved in the Church of God. For we are entirely of the opinion that, to avoid doubtfulness, one should speak actually and clearly. And so much of the first article.
From the other article.
We did not think at the time when the Confession was delivered that some dispute would arise among the opponents about this article, but we had to keep silent about some people's cries, who completely abolished original sin, as there have always been such people, There have always been such people who have had clumsy opinions about original sin, because the judgment of reason cannot sufficiently recognize the greatness of human weakness, and because of the causes, both of sin and of the greatness of weakness are also revealed in this article in the word of God alone.
But the doctor has rightly said that one can easily become one in the definitionibus of things. For we also accept the two old definitions as known, among which in the one original sin is called a lack of the hereditary righteousness that is to be in us; in the other a lust and covetousness, and do not consider that these definitions are far removed from our opinion. For this deficiency means nothing else than a deprivation of the high gifts that were given to our first parents in creation, namely, the light, so that they truly knew or could know God, the affection of the will toward God, and the proper perfection of all powers.
After these have been lost, a blindness of mind, a turning away of the will, and an abominable wrongness of the desires, to which one's heart desires and carries, have come in its place. All this belongs to the definition in which original sin is called lust. For we make a distinction between the desires in themselves, which have been created by God, and between the corruption that has come about, or between the wrongness. In the will remain the affections that God planted in human nature; the desires also remain in appetite sensitive). The dear ancients also did not want to admit that one should call lust the desire, so planted by God in nature, but the same inversion. As an example: although in Catone there is a lust and love for virtue, the will is turned away from God. From this we see that both the old definitions and our opinion are one with each other.
But the fact that we use such words, which signify an action or effect, is how we distinguish original sin from real sin. And because we have described it negatively, we have wanted to indicate the loss of such given gifts, and do not think that we should be punished for it, by exaggerating the greatness of this evil, if we only remain within our due limit.
For we stand in the thought that these are not bad evils: the blindness in the mind, and the turning away of the will from God; from which so terrible epicuric and academic doubting and innumerable errors have flowed from God. Thus the dear prophets do not describe it as a bad little evil when Jeremiah says: "The human heart is evil and perverse.
Thus, indeed, hereditary righteousness was no small adornment, which (as we believe) indicates the image of God, in that the human mind was a temple of God, in which shone forth a glorious knowledge of God, a firm confidence and a perfect love. For this reason St. Paul also commands that we should renew such an image. And so that one may understand what he means by the image, he immediately adds: "in holiness and righteousness". If you are satisfied with this report, as far as the definitions are concerned, there is no disagreement among us; if not, we ask for a more extensive explanation and desire nothing more than a right sincerity in judgment.
As for the other locurn, perhaps there is more disagreement. For since the Doctor introduces many testimonies which affirm that in baptism sin is taken away, we are also of the opinion that in baptism original sin is forgiven, as well as other sins (as in adult people), and that the Holy Spirit is given, who brings about a new light and a converted will. We do not doubt that the whole church is of the same opinion, but this means that baptism is held high and adorned, that such an abundance of grace, that this evil which is left, is also covered and forgiven to those who remain in grace, as Paul says: "grace is more powerful than sin". Now this is debatable, whether the deceitful infirmity in the saints is a punishment or a mean thing; or whether it is such a thing as by its nature is worthy of eternal death if not forgiven? Further, this infirmity is not merely the lust in appetite.
sensitivo, nor only a tinder or quality of the body, but a blindness that has not yet died in the mind, as the saints experience in particular, who feel the doubt and distrust of God. The will is not converted to God in such a way that it burns with love for God, but the saints often end up loving themselves and thinking highly of themselves. Therefore, both in the mind and in the will and in the appetitu sensitivo, there remains an infirmity and weakness, which the saints so often lament, as Paul says: "Poor me, who will deliver me from the body of this death? Likewise he says that the law strives in its members in a hostile manner, and takes captive the law of the mind. And this is not a small complaint, nor is it to be considered small, which is written in the Psalm: "Behold, I am conceived in sins," and: "I said in my anguish, All men are liars," who do not understand anything right from God.
Therefore we say that this evil, which remains after baptism, is not only a punishment and not a mean thing, but such a thing, which by its nature is worthy of eternal death, unless it is forgiven. And adult people need faith to fight against this evil and ask for forgiveness. Which faith, if it is cast out again, this evil also deserves eternal death. The testimonies in Scripture are clear, for Paul explicitly calls this affliction sin, speaking of himself as one who is now born again, Rom. 7: the sin dwelling in my flesh. And so he describes this evil sometimes with such words, which mean to take something from one; sometimes to give something to one; as when he says: "To be carnally minded is an enmity against God, and also cannot become subject to the law of God." Item: "I find another law in my members, which is contrary to the law in my mind"; speaks not only of the lusts in the mind, but also of the above 1) evil, and sin here means nothing else than what he declares in the text, namely, an evil that is contrary to the law of God. Other testimonies belong to this, which are given from time to time in Scripture. For the prophets, in order to teach that man is not justified by the law but needs forgiveness of sins, repeated the doctrine of this evil more than once, as in the
1) "obigem" put by us instead of: "obern". Latin: superivrikus.
Book of Creation: "Man's heart is evil forever". From Jeremiah and the Psalms we have introduced testimonies above, and do not doubt at all that what we teach is Augustine's opinion, who so often says: this sin is forgiven, as far as the reatum, or accused state and being, is concerned. But he also adds that the regeneration is begun, but nevertheless the sin still remains. For he often uses this word reliquum, ut tractatu 41. in Johann. Sin shall not reign in our mortal body. He does not say: it shall not be; but: it shall not reign. As long as thou livest, it shall not be otherwise; sin shall be in thy members; but that it be not given dominion, that it be not done whatsoever it shall command. There he speaks truly of the born-again.
And libro V. contra Julianum he assigns three things to this affliction, also in the born-again, that it is a sin, that it is a punishment of sins and a cause of sin. The words are thus: The lust of the flesh, against which the good spirit lusts, is a sin. For in it is disobedience to the rule of the mind, and is also a punishment of sins. For it is given to the merit of him who is disobedient. It is also a cause of sin in the apostasy of him who consents to it, and in the defilement of him who is born. Elsewhere of the baptism of little children: the law of sin, which, though it be forgiven, yet abideth in the old flesh.
In concione Domini in monte: although the transgression is erased, the infirmity is not completely changed. You will still say: forgive us our trespasses. Therefore, he himself understands that the saints at all times need the forgiveness of this vice. Writing to Julianum, he rebukes the obstinacy of men who are not afraid when they feel their weakness, namely the doubt of God, and many other erroneous impetuses, and he adds this epiphonema: Believe when you do not argue; recognize when you argue. With these words he indicates that many safe people beat down this affliction; but since Augustine knows well what to write in this Materia and does not disagree with it, there is no need to heap more testimony. But since the Doctor introduces the locum de nuptiis, the question there is how to distinguish the desire to beget children from the wrong kind. And there he expressly states that lust in the born-again is not a sin, because sin is forgiven.
He tries to distinguish the creature from the corruption of the creature.
Finally, since our whole opinion has much glorious testimony of the prophetic apostolic Scriptures and of the learned fathers, nor has anything to do with the Pelagian swarm, much less with the Manichaean, there is nothing inconsistent in it. For it makes a distinction between nature and the same corruption, and let human will have its own; as we will say in its place.
With that, Philip decided:
That is what I wanted to say recently. If the doctor wants to discuss the matter further, I ask for a clear explanation of my opinion, as much as necessity will require, and I ask that the other gentlemen assigned to me also say what they think is good; for I do not want to be the one who alone makes the judgment, so it is also customary in the church that everyone speaks his opinion.
Eccius replied:
We must first become right in this, then the others may say what each one likes. What is to be accepted, we want to accept, but what is needed, that must also be explained.
Just that day afternoon at 3 o'clock Doctor Eccius continued in conversation.
Gracious Sir, Reverend Father, and other noble Lords and Fathers!
To carry out what we have started today, that I may not keep you long with extensive circumlocution, I will immediately turn again to what the Mr. Collocutor has brought forward today. And first of all, concerning the disparity of the exemplars, I could easily nullify his answer, and obviously show that the exemplars handed over were not only in words, but also in the things about them much different than the Confessio Augustana; for if they were not contrary to each other, one would not have had to torment oneself so much at Augsburg in the little word meriiti, which they rejected at that time. To make it all the shorter, I refer to the future articles of the Colloquii, where I will bring such things to light as in the 10th article.
For the other, the Mr. Collocutor caught a little word, since I said that they had gone out from us, and it suggests as if I had them on the fly
I do not indicate this in my words, because such a departure 1) can be interpreted in many ways, which, as it is not necessary in the present, is also not useful, because I would like nothing better than to win over my brothers and to know and have one faith. Otherwise, I have no lack of answers. There are the publicly posted mandates of the laudable Emperor Caroli, among other authorities, about which, as it seems to me, they should have much less to complain than about other Christian princes, who have executed their mandates against them much more zealously. And that he ascribes the cause of such a departure to our abuses, I consider to be all too little, according to my bad sense, since they are mostly in disagreement with us in the preceding 21 articles, which they call the articles of faith.
Jeremiah does not belong here, who was guided by the command of his fathers and the divine revelation. Therefore, I have asked my Lord Collocutor for the sake of the sincerity of his Ingenii, and all others who are present here; as I testified today at the beginning, if one or the other word should escape me, do not take it badly, but kindly, so that we do not always dance to the tune of the larva, which is considered bad, and with rambling words, which are not at all suitable for confession, annoy the excellent present masters.
But as far as the first article is concerned, which was accepted without any dispute, I was very pleased that the Collocutor praised the holy Concilium Nicenum so much, so that I was given greater hope that agreement could be reached, since otherwise it had the appearance that he, when he was still a young man, did not think much at all of this Concilio, and Luther was allowed to say that faith and gospel had been lost in this holy Synod at Nicaea.
But as far as the other article is concerned, I also like the one in which we agree that it is right to hold against the old and new Pelagians about original sin; but that the master wants to have an explanation of the definition of original sin, that it is not only a defect of hereditary righteousness, but also of other gifts, as he has also partly told, in this I ask for a more convenient interpretation; for according to the opinion of the saints, the original sin is not only a defect of hereditary righteousness, but also of other gifts, as he has also partly told, in this I ask for a more convenient interpretation; for according to the opinion of the saints, the original sin is not only a defect of hereditary righteousness, but also of other gifts, as he has also partly told.
1) "Going out" put by us instead of: "laying out". In Latin: sxitus.
Fathers, who declare the holy scripture, if a child was endowed with this hereditary righteousness, even if he lacked other gifts, the hereditary guilt would not be with and in him. As it has been disputed among many, especially among the ancients, whether the first man, Adam, was created in grace, which did something pleasant, since there has been no doubt at all about his hereditary righteousness, I agree with the master that a child must lack many gifts for lack of this hereditary righteousness, both before and after baptism. If this is his opinion, we are quite at one.
That he also confessed under the answer that there is a difference between original and real sin, we also accept with great rejoicing, although it seems as if he, since he was a young man, was not of that opinion. Therefore we accept the sayings of the perverse heart; but then it becomes perverse when lust rules in our body and we are obedient to it and render [obedience]. Otherwise we experience and recognize that our heart is inclined to evil, as God says: "The mind of man is evil from his youth." From this trade we confess that these gifts, of which the Lord Magister speaks, men would have had if they had existed in hereditary righteousness, namely, the knowledge, the love of God etc., and had not had such affection for evil.
But as for that which was brought forward about the remaining guilt after baptism, by which the majesty of holy baptism was made greater, I do not understand, because it could be seen as if it were a disgrace to baptism, even a disgrace to Christ himself, who instituted baptism, if it were not enough that it should blot out all guilt of sins. On the other hand, St. Paul, in the Titum, so clearly boasts to us of the high excellence of baptism, saying: "According to his mercy he makes us blessed through the bath of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that by his grace we might be justified and become heirs of eternal life.
Here the apostle testifies that we have been made blessed by the abundant outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon us. But now there would be no abundance if the remaining guilt were more powerful. We Christians should rather confess that the obedience of the one Lord Christ has earned us more grace than Adam's disobedience has brought in guilt. For this
seems to be too little when the master says that this sin will be forgiven if one takes the forgiveness by faith, because it is not advisable for those children who die before they can use their reason. And if it is given by faith, it is once more withdrawn from the sacrament of baptism; and not only this, but also the new doctrines cease, by which they impose on us a perpetual sin of lust, so that, though they do not want to accept baptism as the remedy for this guilt, they may yet recognize with their strong faith that this sin is not for and for.
For this reason, it seems to me to be more helpful for unity if they confess with the general Christian church that before baptism both are guilt and punishment, but after baptism nothing is left but punishment, or (as Augustine used to say) misfortune. And so that I may remember this in passing, because Augustine has been mentioned, the Magister Augustinum has taken up libro V. contra Julianum, since he ascribes three things to lust, so the jurists are accustomed to say: It is impolite to answer if one has not first looked at the whole text. For what Augustine there brought forward, he said about the pleasure before baptism, which the unfortunate Julianus, who followed Pelagio, did not want to be a sin, nor something evil, but it was worthy of praise.
This is also Augustine's opinion in St. John's tract 41, where the Holy Father teaches with clear words: everything that we did sinfully before baptism was erased in baptism, and as the words further read.
But since we have come to Augustine, it is not uneven if we also consider other dicta of his. For nowhere did Augustine say, as I refer to the Holy Father, that sin remains in a baptized child after baptism. For what is usually said, that sin is eradicated in baptism, not that it is no longer there, but that it is not imputed, does not appear in Augustine. For he remembers the lust that is forgiven, not that it is no longer there, but that it is not counted. For it is very beautiful what Augustine says, that this is not sin, which has no reatum or accusation. It' true: Luther has falsified this locum at the very first, therefore the others have erred in the same way. The change loci from Augustino bring the interpretation itself on the back (as one is wont to say), because we confess,
That the remaining lust is a weakness, a sickness, or an infirmity, and that they beget children worse than themselves; that evil approvals are, which, if the heart consent unto them, they verily give the sin received, as St. James teacheth us such things.
But I think that the venerable master, my good friend, if he wants to help bring this matter to unity in a friendly way, he can do it very easily if he interprets what he has said today about the forgiveness of sins, and in the Apologia about unattributed sin, so that the guilt, which is actually and truly called reatns, is erased in baptism; but nevertheless causes a continual strife of the flesh against the Spirit, and that such strife of the flesh, of which St. Paul often speaks, is of sin's origin, left by sin, and inclined to sin, for which things St. Paul did not even call it sin. Since this was the assumtum, Paul speaks of himself, I do not dispute this at all, although Origen, Ambrose, Hilarius, Jerome, and, it is right for me, Paulinus, the great crier of St. Felicis, whose commemoration the Christian Church celebrates to this day, are of a different opinion. But for Augustine's sake, who was now old because he understood these words from Paul's person, let us not dislike it either. But let us take Augustine's interpretation before us, that the apostle calls lust sin, because it is done with sins. I add, because it prompts and tends to sin. It is a beautiful similitude that Augustine puts forward, that lust is called sin in the same way that a man's writing is called his hand, and a man's speech is called his tongue.
What has been drawn from the Psalm, that all men are liars, we accept the Psalm; but the new interpretation we cannot admit in the present; likewise that the venerable Magister introduces another locum of the same voice from Paul, because he did not say where it stands, will not occur to us even now that Paul spoke on this stroke. But in the epistle to the Romans, Paul says of the wisdom of the flesh that it is an enmity against God and not subject to the law; but that he wants to heal many loca, which I have cited today, from many books with an ointment, I do not confess. That there is disorder in nature, we take for known. Therefore Augustine attributes much evil to lust; but he confesses everywhere that in baptism all sins are forgiven.
And on top of the above looa, let us add what he writes about his own person in libro VI. contra Julianum, c. 5: Far be it from me to say that the grace of this bath is in vain, in which I was born again of water and the Spirit, and thereby freed from the guilt and accusation of all my sins. Yes, he also stabs Julianum in this very place because of the wrong opinion, for he says: he is far wrong if he thinks that the baptized person no longer has any desire at all. He is free from all sins, but not from all evil.
Therefore, since the dignity of holy baptism does not require otherwise, and the merit of the blood of Jesus Christ, which is shed, has obtained this from the heavenly Father, and the holy Scriptures testify to this brightly and irrefutably, that forgiveness of all sins is imparted in baptism, likewise Augustine, Jerome, and Ambrose affirm this with quite undoubted words, which the whole church has believed until now: It can be seen from this that this is the right and proper way to unity in this article, as reminded above, if it is understood from the forgiveness received, but not from the imputation of sin, that we henceforth speak the same way and have the same mind among ourselves, then there will be peace and unity in our churches. This is given by the Son of Mary, amen.
The following Saturday, January 15, early at 8 o'clock, Mr. Philip started the conversation again.
Accordingly, I have received a favorable reply from the well-born Lord, Commissario Imperial Majesty, and the venerable, well-born, noble and honorable Presidents. Majesty, and the venerable, well-born, noble and honorable Presidents, I will recently reply to what was said yesterday.
First of all, what the honorable Doctor has asked us to do at the entrance, to be annoyed because of the copies and publicly posted mandates, we want to answer it elsewhere, one makes a measure to move such up to me.
Secondly, that he wishes such unanimity in the other article, as in the first, we truly wish likewise from the heart, that we may hold fast to one another in God's word in one sense, and as in the first article, so also in the other have one opinion. I would hope that such unanimity could be established if we had unsuspicious judges. As can be seen in the other article, in which everyone sees that it would be easy to come to unity.
A Christian and sincere judge can easily understand that the definitions are not far from each other in truth, if one only wants to understand them correctly. In the other loco, it is also quite easy to come to a decision about the sins in the saints, if one only considers the teachings of St. Paul correctly and looks at the affections of his heart with both eyes. Who is there among us who would not be hurt in his heart if he had doubts about God, if he did not fear God enough, if he did not burn with love, if he did many things just because he felt like it, without prayer, and if he was otherwise inflamed with other evil emotions? All this, even though there is no perfect consent, every Christian heart nevertheless recognizes that it is sin, it repents, it asks for forgiveness. So this locus can be easily decided. And God wanted great princes and lords to hear the sighing and prayer of Christian hearts among all nations, who desire from the bottom of their hearts that the Christian Church be rightly counseled. At this time, we thank our most gracious Emperor, who wanted to initiate this discussion, so that one might deliberate on how to come to a unified, right decision and end, and we ask God to be with Christian and wholesome proposals of His pure Church and to help promote its nobility.
I recently wanted to attach this so that I could respond to this point of the introduction, in which the doctor mentioned the sharpness used against us, and I would be sorry if the doctor took a liking to it and let him do as he pleased. For it is written, "Blessed is he who takes care of the needy, for the Lord will save him in the evil time.
Thirdly, he says that I attribute more gifts to the definitionibus of hereditary righteousness than is proper, and adds an example, if a child were given hereditary righteousness, he would not be guilty, even if he did not have the other gifts. To this I reply, I do not think that the Doctor means that original sin is only a reatus, and not also a turning away from God. So one must also confess that righteousness is not only an acceptance of grace, but also a conversion to God, and that of all powers (we are talking about original righteousness), therefore these gifts are necessarily included in it: in the mind a light, in the will a conversion to God, and in the other powers a lawful order and skill. All this a child would have.
if it had hereditary justice in itself. It would be the case that the author would have understood righteousness solely from the acceptance of grace, which I do not hope for. Furthermore, just as there is a difference between sin and the wages of sin, namely death, and everything that is conceived by it, which is the incapacity of all powers of mind and body, the tyranny of the devil, who either rages against the body or against something else: Thus there is also a difference between hereditary righteousness and the gifts assigned to it, namely immortality, and various powers of mind and body; but nevertheless hereditary righteousness remains, unless it wants to understand, through the acceptance of grace, a perfect rightness of all powers toward God; therefore it necessarily comprehends these three things of which I have said. Thus it also seems that the Fathers have reported just that, when they describe sin, that it is either a lack of the righteousness that should be in us, or a lust, or a lack of understanding in the mind and a disobedience in the will; likewise when they say that hereditary righteousness is a rightness of all powers, namely against God, or as Nazianzenus said: it was the image of God. All this, that it rhymes together, is obvious, and I hope it will do the Doctor enough; I also think that he will certainly let him like what Occam said: he (if not the authority of the fathers were in his light) wanted to say that original sin was nothing more than a reatus.
Fourthly, although my writings are not primarily dealt with here, but rather the common teachings of our churches, if it can be argued that I have erred therein, I will answer honestly and gladly yield to those who remind me of the better.
That he further said that he accepted the difference between original sin and real sins with joy, I can say this for a whole truth, that this difference is taught in our churches with diligence, and has always been taught, it may be that one may speak proprie and more actually than the other, as it is wont to go. Yes, there are writings of ours in which Augustine is praised for having taught the difference of these words much more diligently than the others who lived before him.
Furthermore, in the Holy Scriptures one must also pay careful attention to when the word "sin" refers to original sin and when it refers to real sin.
The first is the question of when it is to be understood from both, as it often understands both in itself, as the order of the arguments and proofs will show.
As to the fifth, concerning the saying of Jeremiah, "The heart of man is perverse," etc., I will not quarrel much, for we can use other testimonies; nevertheless, I leave it to others to judge whether the interpretation of the actual sins to which the grant comes reveals the whole opinion of the text, since the prophet says, "The heart is evil and perverse in all."
So also in the first book of Moses is not written: All thinking and striving is inclined to evil; but: "is evil at all times forever". These universals truly describe the extreme corruption of nature.
Sixthly, he attacked us more harshly in such a colloquium than was due, saying that we were putting shame on baptism, indeed on Christ himself. It is necessary that this locus be refuted, in which refutation one must speak both of the majesty of holy baptism, and then also of the superfluous grace of the Son of God, whom we call upon and endeavor to praise with all our hearts. We also declare it to be true that grace is much more powerful than sin. For otherwise it could not bring us eternal salvation, overcoming death etc. We also preach this, that the Holy Spirit is poured out abundantly.
But if we therefore conclude: If sin remains, the merit of Christ is diminished: we say that sin remains ergo so we diminish the merit of Christ. Let us answer the other proposition: We say that sin does not remain, but is taken away, not only as regards imputation, but also in fact in itself. But in this life the new and eternal righteousness is begun when a man begins to blot out sin and put it to death; after that complete righteousness is obtained when the body decays, which, as Paul says, is given over to death for sin's sake, that is, for the sins that cling to it. Therefore, the merit of Christ is gloriously emphasized when we teach with Scripture that the saints also have forgiveness of sins because of the death of Christ, not because of the law or their own worthiness; and believers have great comfort when they look upon the sacrifice of the Son of God in faith.
The other conclusion is: The Holy Spirit is poured out on us abundantly: ergo, He is so abundant
ly that he takes away all sin. I admit it, because he overcomes sin and begins the new righteousness. Meanwhile, he does not contend with sin alone, as Paul says Rom. 8, but "we also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption of God." Item: "The Spirit represents us with groanings unspeakable." Therefore the Holy Spirit is poured out abundantly into hearts, overcoming sin and taking it away in order, as we have said. As also Zacharias says Cap. 12, that the Spirit of grace and prayer is poured out. Namely, because the Holy Spirit encourages hearts to recognize grace, believe forgiveness of sins, wait for salvation, and truly call, understands the most distinguished services that are actually due to this new obedience.
The third argument, in which it is argued that something is taken away from the sacrament of baptism if one needs faith to ask for forgiveness of sins, is that forgiveness is given in vain in baptism. Answer: This is a wonderful understanding of baptism, if they think that the children are sanctified without the Holy Spirit. For when this sin is forgiven, then at the same time the Holy Spirit is given, which immediately begins to contend against the sins, and also afterwards resounds in the adults, in whom faith is to shine forth, which both recognizes the weakness, contends with this sin, and asks forgiveness; therefore these things fit together, that sin is forgiven through baptism, and that faith is necessary in the adults, which asks forgiveness of sins, as has been said. For if the Holy Spirit is given in baptism, it is truly active and powerful in adults who do not fall away.
Seventh, I now come to the testimonies from Augustino. Although (as is usually the case) in controversial matters, unequal testimonies are often cited from the scribes, a sincere judge, who loves the truth, would do well to take care of the author's steadfast opinion; and do not doubt us at all that this is the constant opinion of Augustine, which we have now told, although he speaks more clearly once than the other time, and we want to leave it up to the reader to judge this. The doctor considers the testimonies mocking, but one can easily judge from this what the opinion is. For this cannot be denied to me, that the locus in llokarm. tractatu 41, which we have cited, is both from the
He speaks of the born-again as of original sin. For he says: As long as you live, sin will necessarily be found in your members; which cannot be understood, to which a full consent comes. Thus also the locus contra Julianum speaks of the born again, for it clearly says: The lust of the flesh, against which the spirit lusts, is sin etc. Thus many testimonies can be read together, which assert our opinion, as contra Julianum libro 3: The law of sins, which is contrary to the law in the mind, which was also in the members of such a great apostle, is forgiven in baptism; but it does not cease.
Ad Macedonium, he says: "Believers are righteous because they have received grace, but sinners because of the defects of infirmity. Therefore, if we have been justified by faith, we are justified; but if we have the rest of Adam, we are not without sin.
But I do not want to tell anything more about this, I only ask that one should consider the steadfast opinion of the Auctoris with diligence. For the main thing is based primarily on the testimonies of the prophets and apostles. Therefore we turn to the saying to the Romans on the 7th verse.
The Doctor knows very well that there is a great disparity between the interpretation of Origen and those who followed him, and between the other, which we call Augustine's; nor do we think that the Doctor will accept Origen's opinion in such a way that he will prefer it to Augustine's; and because the opinion of Scripture is the more certain, we take it for granted that this alone is to be accepted as the true one. Therefore, after Origen, let us look at the text itself, in which Paul expansively interprets and explains this peculiar doctrine of the Gospel, of the benefit of the law, of the redemption that comes through grace, and of the remaining infirmities, over which grace is much more powerful.
For first of all he says that sin without the law is dead, in which saying, as in others, Origen combines various opinions and teaches nothing certain; since this is the true understanding, that without the law sin is not recognized, in such recognition, which terrifies and causes terror in the consciences, of which he elsewhere says: "Sin only causes wrath." Item: "The sting of death is sin, the power of sins is the law." Continue in the text: "But I lived without the law," that is, I was safe, and did not feel the
The terror of the law; "but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died," that is, when I knew sin, the terror of death and the judgment of the law overtook me. This is the first part in which he preaches about the benefit of the law. Then he adds the struggle of the renewed man after such terror. For it depends on each other, and as he speaks of himself in the beginning, so he also speaks of his own person afterwards, and cannot be understood at all by another, because he says several times: "I delight in God's law according to the inward man," which cannot be said of one who is not born again; in him, he says, dwells sin; and what he wants to be understood by sin he indicates clearly enough, because he clearly says: this sin in his mind is contrary to God's law. Therefore, no other meaning should be given to the word "sin", as the Doctor makes a metalepsis that it is called sin because it was caused by sin. Although this also has its certain way, as we have drawn above from Augustine, that this infirmity is called both sin and a cause of sins, and also a punishment of sins. But Paul is speaking here specifically of weakness, which is contrary to the law of God. But that this is called sin by nature is not hidden from anyone.
is generally given by the word sapientiae; although I do not want to quarrel about the words, the dispute is of the rebus, for on this loco much thing rests.
The good deed of Christ cannot be sufficiently known, but first recognize the infirmities; and if this opinion of reason is accepted, that these pleasures, or infirmities in the mind, in the will, and in the appetitu sensitivo, and the vicious motions, which are called motus primos, should not be sin, then immediately these false opinions of the law creep in with them, that men are justified by the law, fulfilling the law etc.
Since there can be no doubt that this is not sin in its nature, which is called enmity against God (for what can be said that is terrible?), we have enough clear testimonies in our opinion. Here also belongs what 1 John 2 says: "The lust of the flesh is not of the Father."
But that Jacob says, "Lust, when it has conceived, begets sin," is rightly said; only it does not follow that lust in itself is therefore not such a vice, worthy by its nature of eternal death, but as the tree is evil, so it also brings forth evil fruit, as elsewhere Paul says "fruits of sins."
And this does not prevent me from disputing as if grace and sin could not stand together. It is true that the Holy Spirit and grace are cast out, and faith is lost, by which we are justified, if we commit sin against our conscience, as Paul says: "If you live according to the flesh, you will die"; but he also confesses that the Holy Spirit and this infirmity are together at the same time, which infirmity he calls a sin that is not idle. Therefore he says, "If ye shall put to death the business of the flesh by the Spirit, ye shall live"; and in like manner he elsewhere sets the old man and the new man against each other: "The flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh." "Our old man is crucified." In the same way as in the cure health is begun, so here regeneration is begun, and yet grace is more powerful, because the remnant of sins and sickness is gradually eradicated and the whole regeneration, namely eternal righteousness and life, is given.
There is nothing dark or confused about all these things together, and they have been taught in the holy scriptures of the prophets and apostles without any doubt. Therefore we should be satisfied with such testimonies, and at the same time not reject the testimony of the Christian church. For this reason we have also referred to the sayings of Augustine, who himself introduces the above-mentioned scribes.
But that the doctor finally argued that we should say that the guilt had been taken away, we answer that we have testified clearly enough that the reatus is taken away. But that he deals with it, that he wants to induce us to confess that this remaining infirmity alone is a punishment, we can by no means agree with him.
And I ask him to give me credit if I do not talk to him in a different way than I use to talk daily in my prayers before God. Truly, when I consider the doubts, when I feel and realize how much I lack the fear and love of God that is required of me, I cannot judge that it alone is a punishment. I recognize and confess that it is sin, and so the whole Church prays, "Forgive us our trespasses. For this reason, I cannot accept the proposed mitigation, and rather request that you applaud the Scriptures and your consciences, which themselves know in daily experience that this evil evil is not only a punishment, but also a sin in itself, but which is forgiven the faithful who ask for forgiveness in faith.
Now, from the argument that has been drawn, there remains to be discussed this: sin is forgiven, not in such a way that there is no longer any sin, but that it is not imputed. As far as I am concerned, I find that it is wrong to have attracted it, but the saying is found several times in Augustine. In another place he speaks: Not that there is no sin, but that it does not reign; and if I had been there when these books went out, I would have changed this myself in time enough.
But I will leave everything else in its place for now, and if necessity demands it, I will state my opinion widely.
Since nothing has been touched on the sayings from Micah and Ezekiel, as well as from others, I have given this much in reply to them in a summary: sin is taken away in baptism, as far as the reatum or guilt is concerned, and the Holy Spirit is imparted, who begins a new obedience or righteousness; the same only becomes perfect afterwards;
The prophets speak in the same way, not only of one work of baptism, but of the whole meaning and effect, as they also summarize the begun and complete regeneration. And Jer. 31: "I will make a new covenant" etc., likewise Joel 2. And herewith I have spoken my opinion as much as I could; pray, let others also be heard who can speak better of this.
After this Oration, the Imperial Maj. Maj. Commissarius and the other presidents have ordered that D. Eck should, as much as possible, be brief in his speeches and, putting everything else aside, should only speak of what is necessary for this matter; and this should also be followed in other matters.
What D. Eck has just brought forward on the same day in the afternoon at 2 o'clock.
Reverend, kind and respectable, distinguished gentlemen!
Although much should be said in response to the magistrate's submission today, because the matter is very important, I will nevertheless take my time. For as far as the changing of the Augsburg Confession is concerned, I am now leaving this outside with diligence; but as far as the princely orders are concerned, since my lord considers this to be the case, I am leaving it outside with diligence. But as far as the princely orders are concerned, since my lord thinks that I do not take the punishment therein, Eck would have to be a bold fellow if he wanted to judge royal and princely deeds freely.
the plague, the tinder and the plague itself. But I put this on your all reasonable concern. Who would believe that from such first movements such a horrible vice should be committed? For since no one can live without them, moreover, since they arise against our will, let there be a pious man who is indeed stimulated by such movements to avarice, adultery, and vengeance, but who, by the impetus of his reason, bravely resists such temptation and temptation with God's help, so that it does not reign, and who obeys the lusts of such movements.
Much better would he have said, according to the opinion of the holy fathers, that such first movements, if one does not follow them, cannot be accused of any sin; although I do not hope that the aforementioned disputator, as a mild person, would want to burden all people with such serious vices. Nevertheless, unlearned preachers are found, who treat such vices in coarse
They may draw the mind, and pretend that it is a terrible mortal sin, if either a man, woman, or honest virgin is challenged by such innate movements. For whoever consents to it, commits a real sin; whoever does not consent to it, they nevertheless say, sins because of the deceptive lust. The fathers have always foreseen this, so that no man in the perfect law of Christ would be entangled in any case from the beginning. To the extent that Gerson, otherwise a famous theologian on their side, teaches in Moralibus and other books. Yes, and that is even more, for this reason they get it into their heads that they also burden the childlike innocence, even if they are born again, with mortal sins, by desiring food and mother's milk out of hunger, or longing for a warm little nest in the cold.
And so much of my Mr. Disputatoris entrance.
But before we proceed to the trade itself, let me think that I have kept the right order, that yesterday, soon after the end of my conversation, I asked him to keep Christian unity with us, his brethren, and also pointed out ways how we could easily come to it in the Augsburg Committee; but he rejected my request almost to the end, because he cries daily to God: "Forgive us our trespasses."
But if he had preferred to imitate Augustino, who, according to his touch, should keep it with him, he would not have despised my humble plea, which springs from love and desire for unity. For the holy father writes libr. I. contra duas Pelagianorum epistolas, that it is not for the sake of evil desire that we say, "Forgive us our trespasses," but for the sake of the words which follow, "And lead us not into temptation."
However, since I am well aware of the fact that your Excellencies and Glories want me to be brief, I will also make an effort to be brief, but in such a way that nothing is taken away from the evangelical truth.
So that this may be done the more effectively by me, I hereby humbly ask everyone to keep what I am now summarizing in fresh memory.
For all that has been introduced from the Apostle, from Augustine and others, certainly the holy Fathers unanimously understand of the lust, either of the same tinder, or of the evil affections in themselves, which in the whole life exercise us, that Job not unevenly says: "Man must always be at strife on earth," as Augu-
stinus on the blow citirt. For these are the remnants of the old man and of the first earthly Adam, whom one must strip off and renew from day to day. We have to kill such deceitful lusts and dampen the law in our limbs. For this purpose, fasts, vigils and other chastisements of the body are ordered in the church, and some people choose such things of their own free will, without any compulsion. But since there are so few of us who do this, it is no wonder that lust, the tinder of it, the law of the members, reigns as a tyrant in our mortal body. Because such things often force us to consent to sin, we all pray for the prevention of such infirmity, from which even the most holy want to be delivered.
Now that this has been said at the beginning, let us go over what has been said today. In the point of definitions or descriptions, he pretended that enlightenment and conversion to God belonged to natural righteousness. I truly do not find this either in the Scriptures or in the Fathers. But natural righteousness helps a lot to such works. Inasmuch then as my Lord Collocutor immediately said of death, and what more accidents are attached to it, for this reason natural righteousness also had even more gifts. But that one wants to conclude from this, as if they were the same gifts, is not in accordance with rationi metaphysicae; just as this, too, since he pretends that hereditary and natural justice is nothing other than the complete perfection of all powers. If he speaks of justice alone, we cannot admit this as contrary to Augustine. But when he speaks of this righteousness, by which he understands everything that follows it, we have no hesitation in ascribing anything more to it. Therefore we gladly confess that the loss of the natural acquired righteousness is followed by ignorance in the mind, which the Lord Collocutor called darkness and disobedience in the will, because St. Bernard's opinion must be kept that harm and punishment remain, even if the original sin is remitted.
Regarding the introduced Occam, I have not looked at it in 26 years, but since then I have not forgotten how different the teachers were about original sin, that some, especially the old ones, who had an eye on the evil torments of lust, taught that original sin was nothing else but such a torment; but the new teachers, on the other hand,
who took the formal of it into diligent respect, have attributed to lust the guilt and wrath of God, because we are by nature children of wrath, and thus the preference of guilt.
Occam and others from the new teachers have been of this opinion, but they have not been allowed to reject the old ones, because they had the authority of the fathers on their side.
For this reason, Gabriel, a German theologian, who otherwise compared several different opinions and wanted to bring them to a unanimous understanding, also compared the teachers unanimously in this trade.
Further, just as I put up with it yesterday, so I should not dislike it today either, that the difference between original sin and real sins is diligently practiced in the church. For I have no doubt that the venerable master and the other scholars of his ilk will know how to be modest in this, as in other things. But I fear that if unlearned preachers, of whom there are the most (as in our part), come across such writings before they have been improved, they might, because they lack discretion, disown themselves, unless something else arises from it.
And it is unnecessary for us to discuss Jeremiah's saying any longer, because we admit that the heart of man is evil and perverse from his youth, either because of lust, which as a lure drives to evil, or because of real sins; but that the Scripture should say of all, I do not know, and yet let it be so, it is not to be understood in any other way than as other ways of speaking in the Scripture, when it is said of all. As: All Judea went out to John. And this is very common in Scripture.
But it seems strange to me that the worthy master secretly wanted to poke me in the introduced saying from the first book of Moses, because the church always read it in this way, as I have attracted it: "The thoughts and aspirations of the human heart are inclined to evil (in malum prona sunt) from youth."
But when he constantly says that his people do not take anything away from the majesty of holy baptism, nor from the merit of Christ (for he agrees with us that in holy baptism both grace is abundantly given and the Holy Spirit is abundantly poured out), it is true that he himself speaks correctly, for this is what Paul says in the place where he is dressed. But whether he also speaks to the gentlemen present here-
I do not know whether I have done enough with it. For my own part, I truly cannot be satisfied with this. For how could either grace or the Holy Spirit be given abundantly if they were not so powerful that they could forgive and erase all guilt? For it would rather be said that the guilt is so great and overwhelming that it cannot be put away by grace-filled baptism; for from this it would follow that the sacrament of baptism is much less powerful than penance, in which not only the guilt but also the chastisement is taken away, according to the opinion of the adversaries; but baptism, being somewhat weaker, could not take away the whole guilt. But what my lord always repeats of incipient righteousness, death, regeneration, and the like, these have the understanding we have given from our mutually held agreement.
So we have already explained yesterday about the lust of the flesh in Paul, about the outpouring of the spirit in Zachariah, about ourselves, how there is no one who does not experience the conflict of the flesh and the spirit, and does not do enough in this matter when he praises the baptism of the children, who fight and ask for forgiveness. The children, says Moses, still today know neither good nor evil. I ask my lord, whom I have known for almost 25 years now, to learn a little better the power and regenerating virtue of baptism, so that it touches the body and bathes the soul, as Augustine says. He makes the trade itself difficult for him. How can baptism give grace and spirit to a baptized child if guilt remains in him? And that Luther says that original sin remains after baptism as well as before, I confess my simplicity, that I cannot understand how a child can be God's friend through grace and God's enemy because of guilt. And so that I may open my opinion even more easily: if you want the guilt of the lust pestilence to remain in a man for and for until the regeneration becomes perfect, then there is not a man on earth who does not have a thousand and more than a thousand sins on him, and indeed mortal sins, as some of your part speak, because of the evil lust pestilence.
Who then wants to be blessed in the wide, wide world, when he is stricken with so many mortal sins, because he can never have peace because of evil desire from his childhood to the extreme yeasts of his life; indeed, all men without distinction would have to be tormented with eternal hellish fire because of this mortal sin.
To the saying Augustini tract. 41. sup. Johan., which has been mentioned today, has already been answered superfluously, and if the disputator of Augustine's opinion had been fully addressed, we would already have the answer. For Augustine puts it this way: One only takes the rule from lust, one does not do what it wants to have. Behold, he speaks of lust, which incites to sin, of which he rightly teaches lidro 2. contra Julianum, that it is forgiven under the name of the law of sins, but not even ended. And that therefore, look up the worthy master Augustinum, who in the same book thus says: Can you now distinguish it? Can you now understand that also in baptism all sins are forgiven? He goes on to say about the struggle that even in the baptized there is an inner warfare because of the inward vices. And soon after: Although sin has not the same name, which makes man guilty etc., with the following.
So, when Augustine ad Macedonium calls the faithful sinners, I hear (this saying unsought) Augustine's opinion on this from his own words on the Psalm: "All men are liars." The children, he says, are transgressors, as then also sinners; but im- proprie. Note the little word: improprie.
Further, that the Doctor says that Eck has made a metalepsin in the little word "sin": he should know that it was not conceived by Eck, but brought on the track several times by Augustino.
I also do not want to burden the learned gentlemen in the audience with the interpretation of the 7th chapter to the Romans, because I do not consider that we are here for the sake of reading, which we have to do at home in schools.
Therefore, in order that I may discover my opinion in one word, I did not dislike the said Augustini's opinion in the face of such a repugnant opinion of the teacher yesterday. If the master will also be comfortable with the same, we are already one. But I am not satisfied with what he has brought onto the track from his own head.
But as for the saying of John in his 1st epistle on the 2nd, he cannot embellish his opinion with it; for it is auctoritas sabbataria: 1) "All that is in the world, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and hopeful living, is not of the Father, but of the world." There he has nicely described the causes of the great vices that are committed in the world.
1) sabbataria - a reason of evidence valid among the Jews, Jewish.
There is no doubt in the apostle Jacobs that he holds with the common interpretation when he says that lust, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, which happens when the will consents to evil lusts.
Finally, so that it would appear as if he ascribes something to the power of baptism, he confesses that the guilt or reatus is removed in it. But I want to ask him whether the guilt (culpa) is also taken away or remains? For I do not want to start a quarrel about the words, which Luther called reatum sophisticum so many years ago; but this I desire to know, if the reatus is taken away, whether a guilt, an underlying sin, also remains, or not? For if the guilt or sin does not remain behind, but is taken away at the same time as the reatu, we can all the more easily attain to the desired purpose of unity.
But that in the hidden words, as some are wont to do, there should be this opinion, namely, that baptism brings with it forgiveness of sins, but does not take away sin, we would be in this very doubt. For what the Lord has said about various evil thoughts that arise daily, we ask little about which evil thoughts the Catholic doctors also compared to Egyptian flies.
This is why the prophet Micah is far from being satisfied, who says that all sin will be subdued and thrown into the depths of the sea. Nor to the prophet Ezekiel, who testifies that we will be cleansed from all filthiness, etc. since the most impure sin of evil desire should remain.
It would also be a rather bad answer from the apostle to the Corinthians when he says: "And these things ye were before; but ye are washed away, ye are sanctified, ye are justified"; which does not rhyme at all with a baptized man who is still entangled by the sins that remain. And that we may fully prove and carry out the opinion of the Christian Church, let us repeat the opinion of St. Paul a little more deeply. For when he had said to the Romans, "Let not sin reign in your mortal body, that ye give ear to its lusts," he added, "What then? shall we sin? for we are not under the law, but under grace. Be it far from that!" Why, on the contrary, do you say that it is sin, since Paul denies it? Far be it that ye sin, saith he. So also saith Jacob, "Resist the devil, and he shall
depart from you." If the sin of lust remained in us after this life, when would the devil want to flee from us? Further, Paul says to the Colossians, "Put to death your members which are upon the earth, fornication, uncleanness, covetousness" etc. Now if sin always remained until the full renewal, no man would kill his members. Almost with like saying he speaks also to the Romans, saying, "If ye by the Spirit kill the business of the flesh, ye shall live." Now if the guilt of lust were to remain, no one would live, and that little would be accomplished which he commanded, that we should tear down the body of sins, that we should not further serve sins. Which we consider to have been done by those of whom he says just as has been thought today, "who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, and wait for adoption" etc., and what he said in the beginning of the chapter, "there is nothing condemnable in those who are in Christ Jesus" etc., where he immediately adds the reason, "for they do not live according to the flesh. This same apostle would have encouraged the Catholics in vain when he says: "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has redeemed me from the law of sins and death", which does not rhyme at all with the one who has mortal sin on his neck. These sayings of St. Paul, along with others of the same kind, about the bathing and cleansing of baptism, I set squarely against those who teach that we are ensnared by the sin of lust throughout our lives.
And even though we have heard Augustine many times, there are countless other testimonies of his, which are useful for the assertion of this opinion of the Christians. Now I only love to bring out this few ex libro I. de civitate Dei, cap. 25: If the eager disobedience, which still dwells in the dying members, and contrary to the law of our will, immediately stirs according to its own law, how much more is it without fault in the body of him who does not consent, if it is without fault in the body of the best who sleeps. And again, he speaks a little more clearly: The tinder, he says, is both punishment and guilt before baptism. In De peccatorum meritis et remissione, libro I, c. 34, he proves that in a baptized child there is neither original sin nor real sin.
Let us also, for the confirmation of the truth, refer to the holy martyr Cyprianum de ablutione pedum, since he thus says: Of the secret and hidden gift of the Hei-
This grace comes and pleads with the Holy Spirit, which thus cleanses those who have been infected by the stain inherited from our parents, 1) so that neither real nor original sin leaves a sign on any member after the washing away. Since the holy martyr states in clear words that no sign of the original stain is left either. And the same opinion is also Ambrose about the epistle to the Corinthians. Therefore, Augustine's libro 2. de civitate Dei, when speaking of the baptized children, has canonized them, over whom (he says) there is nothing more innocent.
Now that we have heard the prophets, the gospel and the apostles, as well as the holy fathers, let us also assert our opinion with certain reasons. For to say that a sin remains, which against our will denies us, even completely takes us over, is an inconsistent thing; where would free will be preserved? Because Augustine's opinion is steadfast and firm about something other than original sin: Sin is so voluntary that if it were not voluntary, it would not be sin.
About this and the other, which arises from this very root: No commandment is to be given unless it is about something good or evil that can happen. But if this sin of lust were necessarily in us, no commandment would have been given about it. The force of this reason is explained by Augustino lib. I. de doctrina christiana, and as he himself testifies de gratia et libero arbitrio, the commandments of God would be of no use to man if he did not have a free will in them.
Thirdly, every Christian knows of himself that he must live according to the divine commandments, otherwise he will not attain eternal life; as Augustine assumes this to be known de spiritu et litera, and Christ himself testifies: "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments"; for if anyone will not keep the commandments of God, upon him will come the curses written in the fifth book of Moses. Therefore, these inconsistent things are to be avoided; it is much better to recognize the power and effect of baptism, to highly praise and emphasize the merit of Christ that works in baptism, not to pursue the innocence of the children after baptism with such a more than Herodian tyranny, but rather to praise and emphasize God in the baptism.
1) "abfleuet" (if otherwise the reading is correct) - abWäscht. In Latin: Invans.
We, the elderly, who often consent to the lusts that tempt us, should, by means of divine help and diligent prayer, confidently resist the temptations, so that we may be crowned in eternal bliss by God Almighty.
This is what I wanted to bring forward, so that I would do enough for the venerable Lord Collocutori, and bring what is necessary for this matter, diligently asking that he would accept the formula of unity, which is unfortunate for us, with his brothers, so that peace may be happily restored in the churches of the German country, for the edification of the subjects. This I wish from the bottom of my heart.
What the following Sunday, namely the 16 Januarii afternoon at 3 o'clock been traded.
First of all, D. Conradus Braun, on behalf of the Presidents, informed the Estates of the Augsburg Confession that the Commissary and the Presidents consider it good that both parties had sufficiently discussed the other article of the Confession during the past two days, and that they would therefore like to discontinue further discussion of this article.
But in the name of the Estates of the Augsburg Confession, Mr. Philippus answered thus: although they would gladly comply with the Commissary and the Presidents, it seemed to them to be a very difficult bargain that they should not answer to what they had been accused of yesterday; for this reason, he asked that they also be granted what is otherwise customary in such matters, namely, that as often as the plaintiff brings something forward, so often is the defendant also heard.
To this the Oratori of the Presidents was ordered to reply: although both parties had discussed this other article, the Commissary and the Presidents did not want to deny them their request; but in such a way that the other party was reserved to speak last, because the Confession and Apologia, which they had handed over, were instead of the first proposition; at the same time it was also reminded that the Commissary and the Presidents requested that the discussion should be so restricted that it would not last more than an hour.
Thereupon, Mr. Philip, on behalf of the Estates, thanked the Commissario and the Presidents, and pointed out that the previous day several things had been decided by the opposite party.
She said that they had been spoken to harshly, and then raised several arguments to which one must respond; she also asked that any of their party who had been mentioned in this conversation, who wanted to say something for his person (as would have been admitted before), not be denied this. Likewise, they thought, because the opposing party had begun to speak first, that they were plaintiffs. For the delivered Confessio and Apologia would be the very matter to be dealt with; therefore he reminded that they and not the opposing party would be favored to speak last. To this the Orator of the Presidents answered: the Commissarius and the Presidents therefore consider it good that the discussion on this point should be continued and concluded for both parts. As far as the other articles were concerned, however, their lordships, in addition to the presidents, wanted to declare their opinion tomorrow.
Mr. Philippi's third answer.
It is not difficult to respond to yesterday's long oration, nor to the matter of the oration itself, in which there is nothing confused; but there are two other things that trouble me and are dangerous to the truth. and are dangerous to the truth. Namely, that the doctor, putting aside order, interferes with many things now and then, and uses some doubtful words, so that he harms our cause, as that instead of sin, or infirmity, which we say is forgiven and given to the saints, he soon uses the deceitful little word criminis, balb .capitalis peccati, balb culpae, since there is a great difference between these words. At times he altogether perverts my words; as when he says, as if I should wonder at the baptism in the children that [ask] forgiveness. These wonderful words are not ours. Since he made a blue haze in this way, he pours out cruel invective, measures us a Herodian tyranny. I am disgusted by both, by sophistry and by vituperation. And I am of the opinion of our most gracious emperor, of the well-born Mr. Commissarii and of the presidents Will and Opinion fei, that one should investigate the truth peacefully. And I know that up to now I have discovered our opinion sincerely and without danger. If I were to leave the way, I would rather wish that the Herr Doctori be given another Collocutorem; for in matters of religion, all sophistry must be abolished - and it behooves
not that one should pick on the other with invective. In our country, infant baptism is defended and beautifully decorated by many people's writings, and we are mostly domestic fathers. Truly, we are also concerned about the salvation and welfare of our children. How often have I myself heard these words uttered and diligently imagined: "It is not my father's will that one of these little ones should perish. We believe that they become children of God in baptism, that they receive the Holy Spirit, and that they remain in grace, as long as they do not spill it with real sins, at the age that reason can now use. But the disease that is there is not mortal, but is a forgiven and given sin. Therefore may he cease to impute to us a Herodian tyranny, or he will hear again what he does not like. I hope that sensible people will excuse me for reminding this at the entrance. For it has not befitted us to be silent to these invectives. I consider the doctor to be a learned man; I consider him to be a sincere man; therefore I would like to talk to him about my thoughts, as I do with many, if he would dispute with me without bitterness of heart and without sophistry; but I have no desire or pleasure in such quarrels, nor do they serve peace and quiet.
Now I come to his answer, and will first say about the words: The word "vice", crimen, means a real sin, namely a deed, by which the law of God is violated against conscience. With this, grace is not. Thus we do not say that the vicious movements in the saints, which they resist, are vices.
And the doubtfulness of which he spoke mainly explains our doctrine of justification; we have shown how obedience is pleasing, since it is imperfect. On the other hand, we also say that righteousness and grace are lost when the law of God is transgressed against the conscience, as Paul says: "Those who do such things will not possess the kingdom of God." We also make a distinction between the desires and the corruption. Therefore he does us wrong when he says that we burden the children with mortal sins when they desire food in hunger or cover themselves against frost.
He also often repeats the word "mortal sin", by which we understand a prevailing sin, as Paul speaks, be it hereditary or real sin. But we have witnessed it so many times,
that the born-again are not credited with the ruling sin, but with the forgiven sin.
The word "guilt", culpa, moves us with its doubtful interpretation. For the ancients commonly used the word culpa per reatu, that is, for an imputation by which one is guilty of something. But the younger teachers take it badly for sin, and distinguish it from punishment; therefore, in order that he may maintain against us that this plague alone is a punishment, not a vice contrary to the law of God, he desires that we should say that all guilt is taken away. If, then, he understood the reatum through guilt alone, there would not be much in it; but if he wants that what remains of the plague to be a punishment alone, and not in its nature a vice that is contrary to the law of God, I can by no means applaud him, and say that this evil is too much suppressed, and that many other mischiefs arise from it. For if we admit that there is no sin at all in the saints, it runs counter to the saying of John: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us," and the delusion or conceit that people can fulfill the law of God immediately follows.
I have said about the words, and at the same time answered to yesterday's desire (de culpa), hitting the little word "guilt". Now I proceed to the definitionibus or descriptions of the things in themselves. The doctor sees why there is actually a dispute, namely, whether we are doing the right thing in thus making light of sin, and whether the new teachers put it down too much and hold it in low esteem. For this reason, he seeks the contrast between hereditary righteousness and sin. If by hereditary righteousness alone he understands an acceptance of grace, and by sin alone the reatum, that is, an imputation or rejection without all vices in the nature of man, then he is philosophizing too much. The Scriptures and the Fathers stand in the opinion that this righteousness was not only an acceptance of grace, but also a complete rightness against God. This cannot be in the least without a light that knows God, and without the probation of the will toward God, and without due order of the other powers, as is disputed in 2. dist: 29. And Ambrose says: When Adam was alone, he did not transgress, because his mind was attached to God. There he truly grasps exactly what I have summarized; and I do not make of it an identical order.
titatoin metaphysicam of the gifts, it is also known from the common descriptions that righteousness, which is called universaIis, includes more virtues, or obedience in all powers.
On the contrary, by original sin we understand not only a rejection of the human race or an imputation, but also the corruption of nature in itself, in the mind, in the will, and in the desires of all five senses. Therefore, you must refer the epidemic of lust not only to the appetite of the five senses, although the examples of this are common, but also [to the] higher forces in the mind and will, as has now been reported. There is a clear saying of Augustine about the baptism of little children: "The corruption remains not only in the body, but also in the mind, which is the inner man. Therefore the sayings of St. Paul rhyme very well with this: "To be carnally minded is enmity against God. Item: "The natural man understands nothing of that which is of the Spirit of God; it is foolishness to him and he cannot know it," since he is truly speaking of the description of the mind and the will. Therefore, it can be sufficiently understood that we are right in not minimally denying sin, and that I am not adding a new interpretation to Paul's, but that the one I am telling is truly the opinion of the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures, as well as of the learned fathers.
Then I come to what has been reported about baptism. He says that sin would become powerful if grace and the Spirit could not completely forgive and eradicate it. This is the short answer: We say that sin is completely remitted when a person is received into grace by God through baptism, therefore grace is much more powerful, which completely buries this sin through forgiveness, as is written in Romans 6. Then also in those who are born again the spiritual regeneration is begun, although in the meantime the sinful body (as Paul says) remains, with which the regeneration struggles, which finally, when the sinful body is completely eradicated, will become perfect.
The same opinion has it about the sacrament of penance and baptism in adults, that the real sins, if they have passed away with the works (as it is customary to say), they do not remain, but are forgiven. But the original sin remains, as far as the work is concerned, whether or not.
It may well begin with her being killed, and yet what remains will be forgiven. Therefore we ascribe nothing less to baptism than to the sacrament of penance. What follows I have not said, that baptism in infants asks forgiveness. And if, in repeating my words, he errs in this way, I give him credit for it; but if he deliberately tries to distort them, it hurts me greatly, although it is not necessary for us to ask much about what movements are in the children whom the Holy Spirit sanctifies. But because it says, "The kingdom of heaven is such," we must confess that the regeneration is begun in them.
After that, however, I have reported on the movements of adults, that faith contends with this sin and takes hold of forgiveness in baptism and accepts it with thanksgiving, and, because this evil does not go idly, that faith asks for forgiveness. I have also not said that guilt (culpa) remains in baptism, for I am careful to guard against this word with diligence, because it can easily be drawn into misunderstanding and doubt.
The Doctor also says that he cannot understand how a child can be a friend of God through grace and an enemy of God through sin. Who said this? A born-again person is God's friend because of the mediator of Christ by grace, and because he has received the Holy Spirit; and the evil that remains is given to him and remitted, even though it is a sin that is contrary to God's law. But it does not prevail, indeed, it is buried by forgiveness, as elsewhere de definitionibus or-
thodoxae fidei c. 49. It is written: No saint and righteous person is without sin, but nevertheless he does not cease to be holy and righteous because he pursues sanctification.
This is followed by his thundering words when he says: "Because you make the evil desires in men perpetual sin until perfect regeneration, there is not a man on earth whom you do not afflict with a thousand and a thousand sins, and that with mortal sins.
First of all, he knows very well that we do not say that the sin of lust is perpetual; then he also added that of his own, that we burden people with mortal sins; for we say that such sins are remitted to the born-again by grace. In the meantime, it remains true that this pestilence is not idle, but causes many movements contrary to the law of God, which are to be
and keep the consolation with true faith; that these sins are forgiven, and that obedience, though not perfect, nevertheless pleases God for the sake of the Mediator who forbids us. All this is truly salutary and as clear as day to the godly. For this reason, we are not afraid of the other mean things that he has told in his long declaration. So also the sins of the saints, which they bear, are not little and small. As Moses prays, "Even the innocent is not innocent before thee"; and David, "For thy name's sake, O Lord, be merciful to my iniquity, which is great," though such sins seem a bad thing to the sure and impenitent. But those who are experienced in the practice of true repentance weep for such, as Ezechias: "Like a lion he has crushed all my bones." Thus we read in the vita Augustini that for several days before his fatal death he wrestled with great sadness and lamented with tears and prayers that in so long a life he had not mourned his sin more fiercely. And these are the right words of devotion that he speaks in the 13th chapter of the Dei libro: "He who thinks that he lives without sin does not mean that he has not sinned, but that he has not been forgiven.
I will pass over many other things with diligence. As far as the saying to the Corinthians is concerned: "You are washed away, you are sanctified," etc., I give just what was said above as an answer. Both original sin and real sin in adults, of which Paul speaks, are forgiven through baptism, and sin does not reign, although corruption remains. "That is what you were before," he says, defiled with real sins and with original sin, "but now you are washed away and sanctified through the forgiveness of sins and the regeneration that has begun."
As for the 7th chapter to the Romans, the Doctor does just as that painter did when he painted the sacrifice of Iphigenia. For in such a painting, when he had finished depicting the various gestures of each princely person standing there, and did not know how he should depict the sad father's heart, which far surpassed the others, he paints him covering his face with his cloak. This is how the doctor does it: when he has finished with the glosses with which he paints the other testimonies, he passes over the most noble saying and wraps it up. Of which Augustine speaks: these words of St. Paul have captured him, that he confesses
as if he were speaking of his person or of the born-again. There, St. Paul explicitly and often calls this plague a sin, and so that the word sin is not used in an uncertain sense, he says that it is such a thing that is contrary to the law of God; then he adds the comfort: "There is nothing condemnable about those who are in Christ, for the law of life has redeemed me from the law of sins and death," namely, through forgiveness and the renewal that has begun. For he does not say that he has put off the plague, namely the law in his members. Yes, soon after that he says that the body of sins has been handed over halfway to death.
The sayings, drawn from Augustine and from other fathers, I leave to the judgment of intelligent people. Most of them are not against us. We also say that in baptism all sins are forgiven, and I ask that the constant opinion of Augustine be well considered.
Finally, he passes over the testimonies and brings in argumenta taken from reason and from civil mores to prove that pestilence is not sin. The first is: all sin except original sin is real. Therefore, this surviving pestilence in the saints is not sin, or a vice that goes against the law of God.
Answer: In the first sentence, original sin is excluded, and this saying speaks of civil morality. But this is the main reason why we disagree about this saying, that the difference between civil infirmities and impurity before God, as well as between civil righteousness and the righteousness of faith, be diligently observed. The other is: no commandment shall be impossible, 1) therefore lust is either no sin, or the law is impossible.
To the first sentence I answer: I agree with it as far as outward morals are concerned, and so the divine law is possible to keep as far as outward discipline is concerned, namely, as far as outward honorable service is concerned. But the law of God preaches not only about the outward services, but also about the inward obedience of the heart: "that you love the Lord your God with all your heart" etc. The outward discipline and confession of true worship is possible, and can and should be done; but no one is to be held accountable to this law.
1) In the old edition: "useless".
law can suffice as far as purity of heart and perfect obedience are concerned. Therefore Paul says: "The law of God is spiritual", that is, it requires not only the political discipline, but also the spiritual movements of the highest love of God; and yet this law was also possible before the fall of Adam. According to it, the corrupt nature opposes the law, and yet it was given to bridle from without, and to accuse and condemn sin from within. As Paul strongly affirms that men are not justified by the law, and preaches that the Mediator, the Son of God, was given, through whom we are reconciled to God and made heirs of new and eternal righteousness and life. As John also says, "The law was given through Moses, but grace and truth were given through Jesus Christ," that is, both forgiveness of sins and eternal true righteousness and life were given. So the law becomes possible again, when the new obedience is started, according to the saying: "I will put my law 2) into their hearts" etc., and the sins are forgiven because of the Son of God, to those who repent and believe that they are forgiven because of the Son of God, and by this nothing is taken away from the free will, it can govern the outward discipline to some extent, and when it receives help from the Holy Spirit, it has new movements that agree with the law of God.
The third is, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." No one can keep this commandment, "Thou shalt not lust," etc. if it is understood from the natural disease. Because of this, no one can be saved.
It is truly to be lamented that the law and the gospel are so mixed together. For the broken tablets are called Mosi, so much so that no one can become righteous before God through the law. Therefore this saying, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments," must be held against the promise made by Christ, for which sin is forgiven and new righteousness is given in return, and God is pleased with the beginning of the law, as shall be said in its place. That he then says, that he might abstain from the inconsistent things which he relates in the arguments, that therefore one must hold so hard about it, lest this pestilence be held for it in the saints.
2) "Law" put by us instead of: "heart", according to Jer. 31, 33.
it is a vice that is contrary to the law of God: so we take away the inconsistent things, and set against them far more important reasons why we stick to our opinion, so that we do not confirm the human opinions that make them dream as if men could fully satisfy the law of God, as also other errors, by which the benefits of Christ are not a little obscured.
But that the Lord desired that I speak with my colleagues about it: I have done so, and have asked that each one may speak his mind without hesitation; but they are all unanimous in this, that all men, who are conceived according to the common way of nature, by the concomitance of male and female, when they are born, bring with them original sin, as the church confesses; and hold that the explanation of the descriptions which I have given agrees with the writings of the prophets and apostles, and with the pure scribes of the church. They also do not think that in this case some are against it. They also agree that in baptism original sin is forgiven, that is, the Holy Spirit is imparted and given, which begins spiritual regeneration.
But as for the other diseases that remain in the saints, they think that they are not a means, or only a punishment, but a vice that is contrary to the law of God, which is sin in its nature; as St. Paul also expressly calls it sin several times, but it is remitted to the born-again.
These are clear and understandable words, which do not contain anything doubtful or captious. If this opinion would be enough for the doctor and his colleagues, we would be happy about it. We have no doubt that this is truly the unanimous consensus of the entire Christian Church, that is, of the holy patriarchs, prophets and apostles, and of all the saints from the beginning to this day.
And hold that this opinion is certainly and truly taught in the prophetic and apostolic writings; and have no hesitation in provoking the right Christian ecclesiastical courts, that is, God-fearing and learned people throughout the world, and are astonished that the opposite proclaims so vehemently that people could be without sin, since Augustine himself calls such delusion a nonsense when he speaks: I certainly will not say that a single man is without sin in this life, even if the Pelagians burst with great nonsense. Not because something of
of sin remaining, which is not forgiven in baptism, but because it remains in us, as long as we remain in the weakness of this flesh, it does not cease [to occur] daily; but which to those who pray diligently will always be remitted.
But in the church there are commonly two groups: the one who understands the law only carnally and pauses and defies his own righteousness; the other who recognizes his weakness and infirmity, takes refuge in the mediator, the Son of God, asks for forgiveness in faith, and also receives it'. Both of these images and patterns we have in the Gasterei in Simone. In the same way, when he despised the poor woman, puffed up by his own holiness, the Lord Christ begins to speak to the poor woman, punishes the presumption of the Pharisee, and on the contrary, speaks to the woman the forgiveness of sins, and ascribes to her the praise of the fulfillment of the law, namely love. Perhaps this is exactly what we encounter now. For the persons can easily send themselves to both parts here; we are dealing with the preaching of repentance, with faith, with forgiveness, with the recognition of our own weakness, with the true service of God, so that we wash the feet of Christ. How we will receive this, the work itself gives. You have now heard, Doctor, our opinion, of which we have conversed; if anyone wishes to recall anything further, let him do so. I didn't want to be too broad, so that I would behave according to the order of the Commissarii.
D. Eckio has been allowed at his request that he gave his opinion the following day at 7 o'clock, and such recently. It has also been ordered that he end this conversation before another article herewith.
So the following day, January 17, at 8 o'clock, D. Eckius started:
In your name, sweet JEsu, Amen. Reverend, honorable, manly, noble and elective lords and fathers! I must answer my Collocutori. For when he first says that I did not keep order, I confess that I did it because the matter did not want to suffer otherwise. What I said the previous day about capital sins and the like, I did not attribute to the Magistro, nor in general to their churches, but because the preachers rather carelessly, sometimes out of inexperience, overly magnify what is not to be magnified, and call the lack of desire in our German language a capital sin, I have actually written it in Latin.
than by the word capitale. I ask the master and other scholars of his ilk to tell the other lesser ones better when they go so far over the top. The venerable Magister complains that I have dealt with him sophistice and with disgraceful speeches. I want to highly praise that it has never crossed my mind to use a few swear words to complain about him or his colleagues, as I also testified in the beginning of the Colloquii. He considers it a sophistry that I have sometimes not been able to take the order of his words correctly; but this has not happened for the sake of fraud, as the sophists are wont to do, but because the Magister knows that I have never had the notaries' writings. For I thought that they should not be allowed to see it; but that he has received such to read, does not complain me; but ask in turn that he should not hold it against me if I have exchanged one or the other word without any disadvantage, because all present gentlemen see and experience that I do not come up, equipped with a proper oration, which I would have made at home before. However, I would also like to keep this to the credit of the Master, so that he may indeed learn that I am more concerned with the dear truth and unity than with the dissolute glory of memory. For Your Honor knows that I did not want to allow such things to happen to Carlstadt at the Leipzig meeting.
But as for the matter of it itself, because he brought a distinction de crimine, de culpa, on the track, I do not oppose hard, so that we may not get into the Stoic subtleties de reatu, obligatione et Dei offensa. What he otherwise said, that the rest of original sin, and lust itself, is a sin, we cannot reject with Augustino and Damasceno either; but that he again comes to original righteousness, I regard as sufficient for the matter above; but that he further pretends: Original sin is a corruption of nature also in the mind, and to this he introduces the testimony of Augustine on infant baptism, who among other damages also counts the corruption of the mind among them: to this I answer recently: that only in the Christian church do men confess such things. For another nature is that which is made by God, as by a completely perfect master craftsman; another nature is the corrupt, weakened, disordered one. That the mind of man has been wounded by the residue of original sin, we confess, as there is the lack of understanding. And (as I used to
Aristotle experienced this disorder of the mind, but he did not know the cause of it, since he confessed that there was nothing in the mind that had not been in the sense before. For here he saw quite clearly that the mind, as the master, pays attention to the sense, as the servant. And I want to have remembered two things here: One, because we confess all this, I would rather see that the worthy Lord Magister, according to his modesty, would not have weighed down the schoIasticos Doctores, as if they taught that the powers of our nature were perfect; For we confess to His Honor, and are of one mind in this, that the strength of souls has been weakened and corrupted, according to the well-known parable of the man who went down from Jericho and fell among the murderers, who robbed him of what was given him by grace, and wounded him in what was innate in him by nature.
The other thing I remember is that he thought again that the sin of lust was also in the mind, besides the doubt. For once I would have given him credit for it, and would not have doubted it, even if he had condemned it in me; but because he comes again the second time, necessity requires that I defend the truth. And this is my opinion, that this disorder of man's nature weakens; but that the lack of pleasure should be in the upper part of the soul, in the mind, I do not see with my little understanding, as it agrees with Paul, who writes to the Romans: "I know that in me, that is in my flesh, dwells no good thing"; since it is to be noted that he says: "in the flesh". It also follows: "I see another law in my members, which contradicts the law in my mind," since he testifies by a contrast: it is in the members, and thus excludes the mind. Soon he says of the law of sins, "which is in my members. At last he exclaims with great emotion, "I wretched man, who will deliver me from the body of this death"; there with diligence to take care of the word: "from the body"; but the mind, which is the inner man (he testifies in these words), is not weighed down by lust. "For I delight in the law of God, according to the inward man."
Likewise, I also doubt whether the saints also allow doubt, because he who doubts in faith is unbelieving; but if through doubt he understands the humility of mind (as I fully believe His Reverence does according to their peculiar skill), then fence the doubt with the humility of mind.
I do not, because in this way man does not know whether he deserves love or hatred. Gregory also teaches that a good heart looks good when it recognizes guilt, even if there is no guilt.
I do not think that any of us should quarrel about this with Luther, who boasts to the Galatians that each one of us should be certain, in the most certain way, that he is in love.
But what the venerable Magister said about the comparison of the sacraments, I will not touch on for the sake of brevity, but leave it to the reader to consider; but that he suspects me of having intentionally reversed some words or sayings, since my sincerity has been well known to him for so many years, that I act honorably and as a friend with him; or that I had provided it with a word, as I hope not; or that the notarii had not fully taken in my speech (for I, with few words, according to my custom, wrote these words on a little paper), he may be sorry for that and ask forgiveness. But sin is forgiven through baptism and faith. I know well that the master has used more words; but for the sake of better information I have summarized it, truly not of the opinion that I wanted to distort or falsify his words.
I proceed to the one that he has drawn from a child who is God's friend and enemy. Whether he has explained himself sufficiently in this way, I will leave to the favorable reader. What he also said about the everlasting evil of lust, which remains until death, was given to me by the one who understood the words of St. Paul to the Romans in the 6th chapter: "He who has died is justified from sin", from the death of the body. I have no doubt that the worthy master and his learned colleagues will by no means applaud this, because it is totally contrary to Paul's opinion.
The Lord Magister also turns to the sins of the saints and to the sin of good works, touching on the words from the 143rd Psalm: "Do not go into judgment with your servant." Lest I jump out of bounds, I will not touch such matter now. Only set against him the very words of the Psalter, which elsewhere says: "Judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness and according to my innocence." Thus it cannot be unknown to the master what and how great reasons I brought forward in Leipzig when I was there in the disputation.
I would have passed over the other things that follow silently, if only he had not accused me of the painter with Jphigenia in Homer's work, who could not express and paint the paternal heart and affect. If the master thinks that he has made Eckii's teaching so powerless that he can no longer answer in this place, he is truly deceived. For if it were not contrary to the distinguished gentlemen present, I would still try my salvation in this matter for one, two, or three days.
But I know that the distinguished gentlemen are now all shouting: Sat prata biberunt, enough of these things. So you have also heard my skill, since I have proved with so many words from Paul that the plague of lust is in the lowest part of the souls. He often argues that Paul calls this sin, which is contrary to the law of God. For thus the lustful flesh contends against the spirit with the law of God, and this civil war continues in this life for and for, as we have drawn from Augustine, and the conflict as we have introduced from Job. But, although he has undertaken to answer my "argument", I leave it to the discretion of the listener and the reader whether he has done enough for the matter.
What he said about the possibility of the law, I cannot let pass by implicitly. For he refers such a possibility to the external; but it seems to me that this must be said in the internal, as the truth itself, Christ, testifies in Matthew, when he says: "Out of the heart come evil thoughts, death, adultery, theft, fornication, false witness and blasphemy. These are what defile a man." So says the Heartshealer. I confess, he has added an apparent proof of the love of God over all. But he listens to what Augustine says in libro de litera et spiritu (which I know is known to him), and also follows his instruction. It is not our fault if we do not yet love God with such great love as is due to Him according to perfect knowledge. Another is not to attain love completely; another is not to follow any desire. I was also pleased that the master admitted that it is possible to keep the commandments of God if one has divine grace as a helper. This is also the teaching of ours. Although the worthy master in his Apologia sometimes attributes this to ours (in which he does right), sometimes he takes it away from them: in this we are not one with him. The Be-
He takes his cue from the little word Iege, which does not always have the same meaning. So that I am not a burden to anyone, I will only introduce a saying from Paul, Gal. 2: "Through the law I died to the law," which cannot be understood from the same law. It may fit what he introduces from Jeremiah Cap. 31 introduces: "I will put my law in their hearts." For he is not unaware that Paul takes this saying from Heb. 8 and understands it from the evangelical law. It is not my business that Christ answers and says, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." For the preceding question gives the right understanding to the following answer. But I do not think that the Lord Magister means that Christ has mixed the law and the gospel together; only let those see how they answer for it who have written that the ten commandments have been abolished by the new law.
But from that which he includes, from the nonsensical doctrine of the Pelagians, that people could be without sin, because it does not belong here, we want to pass over in silence in the present; but that we thereby state that the Catholics have nothing to do with the Pelagian foolishness; But we say that the grace of God and His help are necessary, and this according to the decree of the Milevitan and Roman Concilii, as one reads in many books of Jerome, and in many places of Augustine.' For we all hold dear the precepts of St. Augustine, who warns in libro de confessione that we should not condemn our neighbor as a sinner, since each one certainly calculates for himself that if he is not prevented from doing so by God's goodness, he can fast in as many vices as the very worst. This is the opinion of the same father; the words themselves just do not occur to me now.
As for the other matters he has raised, there is no dispute. Therefore, for the sake of brevity, I will hasten to the decision. And since he has kindly enough offered us the opinion of his confreres, I also offer them the opinion of ours and of the whole general Christian church. They all confess brightly and clearly that all, begotten of Adam, are born in the common way with original sin, and thus are in God's wrath, and that original sin is a lack of the original righteousness that should be in us, together with lust, and that in baptism the reatus of original sin and all other sins are forgiven through the merit of Christ. But the remaining plague,
namely, the evil desire in itself, because it remains from sin and is always inclined to sin, can therefore be called sin, as the writing is called a hand; but it is not called a damnable sin because of this, either propris or formaliter.
Therefore, not to mention much else, I will turn to the conclusion, because Micah says that in baptism all sins are cast into the depths of the sea; and Ezekiel: that we are washed from all our vices. Zacharias among others: that the Holy Spirit be given; and Christ: that the new birth be of the Spirit and water. Paul also called baptism a bath of life and regeneration, in which the Holy Spirit is abundantly given, in which we are washed away and sanctified. Also the rulers of the churches, Cyprian, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine and Chrysostom, testify that all sins are forgiven in baptism; we ourselves have also heard that the Lord Collocutor, both in his and his own name, has now testified that sin is forgiven, is buried, and is not imputed by God; but as for the weakness of the flesh, the law of the members, the evil desire, because it daily offends us, weakens us with evil movements and desires, incites us to sin: Accordingly, we should call upon the most high God, that he may help us with his grace, so that we may not be led into temptation, but may be delivered from the evil of the present and future life, that we may rejoice with him forever. May he be blessed for ever and ever etc. Amen.
1354 Comparison of the article concerning original sin.
The following three documents are found in Latin and German in Rüder äs eoHoyu. IVorwat., p. 154 ff.
We unanimously confess that all who come from Adam were born with original sin according to the common law, and thus in the wrath of God. Original sin is the lack of the hereditary righteousness that should be in us, together with lust. We also agree that in baptism the guilt of original sin is forgiven with all sins, through the merit of Christ's suffering. However, not only the apostolic writings, but also experience show that nevertheless the lust, lack and weakness of nature remain in us, disease etc. Whereof we (as far as those who are born again are concerned)
are also unanimous, namely that the matter of original sin remains, but the form of it through baptism is accepted. This is why we call it material sin, because it comes from sin and incites to sin and is contrary to the law of God, as Paul also calls sin. In this way it is taught in the schools that the material of original sin remains in those who are baptized, but the formal, which is guilt, is taken away.
1355. farewell put at Worms, January 18, 1541.
See the previous number. Also in the 6orp. Rot., vol. IV, 79 with the wrong time designation: "Jan. 16."
After the Roman Emper. Majesty, our most gracious Lord, Commissarius and Orator, and also the Councils of the Princes and Princes, ordered to the Presidency, at the request of the Princes, Princes and Estates of both parts, Councils, Envoys and Ambassadors were ordered to come to Worms for the Christian non-binding discussion, and then the appointed theologians and scholars of both parts made a start on such a discussion and held their talks on several articles, as such and other things, which have been acted upon so far, bring the action along with them; and although the Emperor's Orator, as well as the Councillors, appointed to the Presidency, were of the opinion to promote such a discussion to the best of their abilities: however, from the Most High Imperial Maj. Maj., our most gracious Lord, the Commissario and Oratori have received a letter, in which their Imperial Majesty has expressed her appreciation for the conversation. Majesty so declare their mind that in the discussion begun at this time no further progress will be made, but that the same will be remitted and referred to a future Imperial Diet, as such may be heard from the said Imperial letter. The Imperial Commissary and Orator, as well as the Councillors, have decreed to the Presidency that all the Princes, Princes and Estates, Councillors, Envoys and Ambassadors, who have to comply with it, do not wish to do so. However, after the imperial letter referred to above, the Emperor's mind has further declared. Maj. of State further declares that the Estates are to attend the Imperial Diet, according to the above-mentioned imperial writing. In such a letter, the Estates of the Imperial Majesty will be informed by the same. Majestät Gemüth von derselben Commifsario und Oratore selbst vernehmen und sich darauf aller Gebühr nach Gelegenheit wissen zu halten.
1) No. 1352 in this volume.
1356 Farewell to the protesting councils and envoys at Worms, January 18, 1541.
See No. 1354, also in 6orp. Het., vol. IV, 80.
After this day, the 18th day of Januarii, the churonic and princely estates and cities of the Augsburg Confession and the councillors, envoys and ambassadors of the same religion, on the commenced action of the Christian discussion all here at Worms by the Imperial Majesty the Orator and the Presidents, a farewell was given. Maj. Orator and the Presidents, the contents of which are contained in a letter from Imperial Maj. They have also discussed and settled the following points. Firstly, concerning the relation of the action taken, as long as one is located here, each one will know how to report to his lord and superior about the writings that have been issued and otherwise everywhere according to necessity. Secondly, concerning the notarial acts of the commenced discussion, since these could not be signed here in a hurry, the princes and estates may have such acts found in our most gracious and gracious lords, the Elector of Saxony and Landgrave of Hesse 2c, chancellery, and obtain copies there. Thirdly, because from the Imperial Majesty's. The third is that from the Imperial Majesty's writings, also Mr. von Granvell's announcement is reported that the Imperial Majesty has ordered a Majesty intends to proceed with the act of a Christian Concordia in religion at the last scheduled Imperial Diet, it was considered that in all ways the presence of the theologians there is again necessary, also that our most gracious and gracious lords and sovereigns personally attend the Imperial Diet, or send it in good order. For this reason, for the electoral and princely. We therefore ask our most gracious and gracious lords, Saxony and Hesse, and the other princes and estates related to religion, to show them no lack of this part, so that the Imperial Diet may be attended by this part, and especially that the remaining persons of the lords theologians, who are not now sent here and were previously named in the farewell at Frankfurt, may also be sent to the Imperial Diet. Fourthly, because for the sake of the escort, no answer has been received from the Imperial Court of Appeal to the reminder of a number of necessary articles that has been handed over, nor to the complaints about the trials and eights. For this reason, the Lord of Granvell made a good excuse, and the Saxon and Hessian councillors had two of them behind him.
The Councillors, left to their own devices, who request it, wish to remind their sovereign and princely graces that as soon as such escort is issued by the Imperial Majesty and comes to their sovereign and princely graces, it may be sent to the other Princes and Estates without delay. Majesty and is received by their sovereign and princely graces, that it be sent without delay to the other princes and estates to be guided by it. Similarly, with regard to the standstill at the Court of Appeal, after the answer has been received from the Imperial Majesty, Her Royal and Princely Graces will send it to the other Princes and Estates without delay. Maj. will also know how to inform the other princes and estates. Finally, it has been deemed good, in response to the Christian admonition that has been issued, that each envoy diligently remind his lord and superior so that, as much as possible, the ministry of preaching and pastoral care in their principalities, lands, cities and territories may be appointed by competent, learned preachers and persons according to need, and the pure doctrine of the Gospel may be preserved in harmony, and unchristian seduction and mobs may, by God's grace, be avoided.
1357 Melanchthon's letters to Veit Dieterich, Joachim Camerarius, and Hieronymus Baumgärtner, from the conversation held at
Worms. January 19, 1541.
The first letter is found in Melanchthon's svist. (according to Saubert's edition), 11b. IV; the second in the spist. Hlslarwbtbonis ach Oamsrarium, p. 364; the third in Melanchthon's spist. (Leiden, 1647. 8.), p. 101; thereafter in Röder 1. e. v. 47, 51 and 55. In the Oorv. Lsk, vol. IV, 88 ff.
Translated into German bon Lt. A. Littet.
To Veit Dieterich.
To the worthy man, Mr. Veit Dieterich, his extremely dear friend, at Nuremberg.
Hail! When you will read the quarrels, which were held in the meeting, then you will have the right history of the meeting (or discussion meeting). For afterwards nothing more was done, although Eck fell on a formula (or draft), but nothing more was thought of it afterwards. I wanted that one could have continued the disputation of justice. For it was noticed that Granvell listened diligently to our disputations, and he is said to have said that he would faithfully report to his prince everything that he thought of our cause, which he did not consider to be as unrighteous as the opponents were shouting it out to be.
I don't care at all about what you have done. I debated both ways: whether to break off the deal or to ask for more favorable points? The discussion concerned an important matter in which nothing real could be concluded, especially as far as I was concerned, who was inclined to the heated side.
To Joachim Camerarius.
To the highly famous and valuable man Joachim Camerarius of Bamberg, his dearest and best friend.
Hail! The public disputation was held immediately after the last letter to you. Eck has spoken for the opponents. And I shall do it for our and the true opinion. We have argued for four days about the natural evil or original sin. Even though Eck said afterwards, secretly and with granvellene, that he really believed our opinion to be right, he still tried to insult it publicly with shameful blasphemies. What wickedness is that not, to teach false things against better knowledge and conscience! But I hope that he has been refuted clearly enough. And I would like you to read my last bad speech, 1) namely the third. For since the previous day he poured out many kitchen words (or crude swear words), as Aristophanes speaks, I did not repay like with like, but still believed that my answer should also be salted a little. But you will hear that from your neighbor.
Today, they say, Emperor Carl will be at Speier; and since Granvell has traveled to him, we have received our farewell. He has publicly testified that he wants to advise his Lord not to start a war in Germany; and therefore, he says, he is traveling to Speier so that the tyranny of the judges may be controlled there. Let us pray to God to guide the hearts of the great to godly and salutary proposals. When I am sent to Regensburg
1) See Col. 536.
you shall have more extensive letters from us. But, my dear Joachim, the prelude of the fight in this meeting increases my concern. I am not afraid of violence and weapons, but of roguishness in words and deceitful tricks. We cannot be too wary of their traps and deceptions in such gatherings. Here, praise God, all my public actions have been honest and righteous.
But the last day our councilors, against my opinion, gave in that L. Gellius 1) would bring two to him who, thinking that they could agree on the above article (on original sin), would make a draft or essay. And I had already heard that Eck approved of our opinion. Now that we were assembled, he brought a leprosy that did not contradict our opinion, but that would not satisfy our people. I said that I wanted to show him to the others, because that was the way I had been sent. So I did not approve of him. After that, nothing more was done. Here I have not provided it very much, but I am distressed about it. I can't wrap myself out of the ropes of the associations so that I don't get stuck somewhere. May God rule and protect us from the deceivers! Be well. January 19.
Philip Melanchthon.
1) Granvella.
To Hieronymus Baumgärtner.
To the highly famous and valuable man, Mr. Hieronymus Baumgärtner, Senator of the City of Nuremberg, his extremely dear patron.
Hail! Our public talks were, I think, quite fair and good. Afterwards, Eccius also came to the settlement or peace formula in silence, since he said to Granvell in German: our opinion was quite right, but it could not be enforced on his own. And because Granvell left the next day, nothing further was done. They also did not hear our verdict from the formula. So everything remained the same as before.
I know that you love the church and liberal arts and teachers of the church. Therefore, I ask you to soothe the minds of those who are not well disposed towards Mr. Osiander or others. It was, of course, a precarious matter, about which I myself argued most diligently on both sides. For I could not make the judicial pronouncement, especially if I had mentioned the violent side. He may not have spoken as gently as I did, but his speech served to bring the matter under better consideration. Therefore, I ask you to interpret it for your own good, as well as to excuse him to others. Be well and enjoy yourselves! Given the 19th of January 1541.
Philip Melanchthon.